adding a ground or neutral buss bar

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Old 01-29-10, 06:57 PM
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adding a ground or neutral buss bar

I'm adding several CB to my 200 amp Cutler Hammer panel and there are no more open places to screw in a neutral leg and ground. I don't think doubling up under a screw is do-able, BUT My question is, How can I add on another ground/neutral bus bar on both sides of the box? They have them locally in HD. What do I need to P/U for stock? Can I screw the new one to the old one with a jumper ???
ALSO, what limits the number of CB's in a panel???
 
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Old 01-29-10, 07:09 PM
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The number of breakers is limited to 42 max. or whatever the label states. The label will not be more than 42. The 2008 NEC has removed that limit but those panels have not hit the market yet.

I am not sure why but you should have enough buss holes to terminate your wires. Grounding wires can be doubled up typically. Neutrals need to be one wire per hole.

Add on ground bars can typically be added. Locations and installation instructions vary based on the panel. Do not terminate any neutrals on the add-on grounding bars.

Could you post a picture of your buss bars and a overall panel?
 
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Old 01-31-10, 10:10 AM
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The grounds and neutrals all go to the same place to connect...

after looking a bit closer it looks like several ground wires ARE twisted together and under a single screw. Not ALL of them though, I think 4 or so at a wack.... I have a few open spaces BUt I remember a few of them were so tight, the driver head stripped on them. Too tight. Here are a few pics
http://s31.photobucket.com/albums/c3...anelbox005.jpg
I hope this posts OK
 

Last edited by hvac01453; 01-31-10 at 10:29 AM.
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Old 01-31-10, 10:28 AM
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A question on grounding bars and neutral bars

are they infact indistingquishable from looking at them . Are grounds to be connected on one side, and neutrals on the other? I noticed the Shielded main line in was AL and connected to one side only. I saw a copper multi strand wire connected to the same side near the top L and an earth ground multi strand wire like about a 2/0 wire connected to the bottom area of the same ground bar on the L side as well. I didn't see a connection to the main top connector to the ground bar on the R side under the big screw... I thought this was odd...
 
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Old 01-31-10, 12:14 PM
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Originally Posted by hvac01453 View Post
I'm adding several CB to my 200 amp Cutler Hammer panel and there are no more open places to screw in a neutral leg and ground. I don't think doubling up under a screw is do-able, BUT My question is, How can I add on another ground/neutral bus bar on both sides of the box? They have them locally in HD. What do I need to P/U for stock? Can I screw the new one to the old one with a jumper ???
ALSO, what limits the number of CB's in a panel???
It appears that you have a Cutler Hammer BR series loadcenter. It also appears that the neutral bus is the one on the left. Assuming this is the main service panel, the neutral bus should be insulated from the panel box except for perhaps a bonding strap or screw that would bond the box to the grounded neutral. I would suggest moving all neutral wires (normally white) to the neutral bus and moving all ground wires, green or bare, to the ground bar. If you still need additional room for ground wires, add a ground bar below the existing ground bar on the right side of the panel using manufacturers instructions. The neutral and ground bars should accompany the allowable number of circuits in this panel.
 
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Old 01-31-10, 01:48 PM
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If this is the only panel you have and there is no means to shut off the panel outside the neutrals and grounds can be mixed on the same bars.
 
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Old 01-31-10, 06:01 PM
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Yes, under those circumstances, the neutrals and grounds can be mixed on the same bar, that is code, however, code is the minimum requirement. Placing the neutral and ground conductors on separate bars is the first step to clean up this installation and may uncover the fact that there are enough spaces for all the neutral conductors required to add the additional circuits. Keeping them separate is the first step to a neat and clean installation.
 
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Old 01-31-10, 08:19 PM
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wire lengths

will be a problem. I won't be able to run the ground wires to the other side of the box,.... I'd need another 2 feet of ground wire, and vice versa on the neutral wires... Were you able to see enough detail on the pics I posted???
Is neutral and ground different from one another??? Also This circuit is going to an outlet inside the kitchen cabinet over the stove (for the Microwave oven), does it need to be GFI?
 
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