bathroom light switches


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Old 05-02-10, 07:14 AM
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bathroom light switches

I wish this would be a simple question but it's not.

To accomodate drywall guys, I quickly had to take apart a bathroom light switch--one receptacle/3 switches- one for a light and a double switch for exhaust fan/light combo.

I now have 4 black (B1-B4) and 4 white wires (W1-W4).

Using a current tester, i get a reading connecting B1-W1, B2-W1, or W1-W2. B1 and B2 connected to a single pole light switch is the only connection I remember before taking it apart and connecting those provides power to the correct light fixture.
B3/4 and W3/4 do not read at all when tested in any combination together or with B1, B2, W1, W2.

I can't recall how many of the white wires were tied together with a wire nut 3 or 4.

The remaining switch is a double switch with two common terminals with black screws and two terminals marked A1 and B1 with brass screws.

I know the safest thing is to call an electrician but this worked just fine before I took it out. I suspect that one of the white wires is used as a black but I can't figure out how to connect it.

And while I'm at it, why are neutral wires tied together and left in the box? What do they do if they aren't connected to the switch?

Thanks for any help,
Ed
 
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Old 05-02-10, 07:47 AM
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Using a current tester
If you mean a non-contact tester it isn't suitable for this. Get a test light or analog multimeter or solenoid voltage tester. Now find out which two conductor cable is "hot" by measuring between black and white. Is more then one 2-conductor cable hot. Was only one cable connected to each switch? Were all the whites tied together or were some connected to the switches?
 
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Old 05-02-10, 08:03 AM
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Ray, thanks for the reply. it's actually a voltage tester (100-250V AC) with two probes that I place on the wires.

I have to correct my original post. I get a reading connecting B1 to W1, B2 to W2, and W1 to W2.

From what I recall B1 and B2 were connected to the single switch for one of the fixtures. The double switch had the other two black wires (I think one on each common terminal) and maybe one of the white ones. I don't recall.

i really thought that all four white wires were tied together but I can't turn the breaker back on when I do that. I'm assuming it's because the white wires are tied together.
 
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Old 05-02-10, 08:55 AM
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I get a reading connecting B1 to W1, B2 to W2, and W1 to W2.
You need to take readings with nothing connected. (Keep a record of any connections that may have been original before disconnecting.) We need to know the readings across the black and white of each unconnected 2-conductor cable. I suspect at least one of those cables is a switch loop. Measuring voltages from black to white on a cable that is a switch loop should give you 0 volts. Are there any 3-conductor cables?
 
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Old 05-02-10, 10:42 AM
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Ok...with nothing connected, there are 4 two conductor cables, one has black sheathing the other three are white. The black cable and one white cable have voltage. The other two cables don't. One of the cables that doesn't have voltage has "BL" written on it.

To follow the earlier naming, the black cable with current is B&W2 the white cable with voltage is B&W1.
 

Last edited by pcboss; 05-02-10 at 03:05 PM. Reason: changed current to voltage
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Old 05-02-10, 11:51 AM
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Though there are common colors often used there are not specific colors for cable sheaths. Some older Romex was black but the color really means nothing. By current do you men 120v? Was there a receptacle in the box? It sounds like it from your first post. Was there a single cable conected to the receptacle? Your writing 4-gang box so were there three switches, one of them duplex (two devices on one yoke)?
The remaining switch is a double switch with two common terminals with black screws and two terminals marked A1 and B1 with brass screws.
Tell me more about this switch. Are there any tabs connecting any of the screws together. Does it control a light and fan. If so how many cables come into the light and fan?
 
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Old 05-02-10, 11:59 AM
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The tester I have just shows whether there is current or not. I don't have a way to measure the voltage, I'm assuming it's 110.

There were two switches in the box. The first was a single pole that turned on a bathroom light (That's the one that b1 and b2 were connected to).

The other switch is a double switch (Leviton Double switch). It has two "common" terminals and an A1 and a B1 terminal. This switch operated the bathroom fan/light fixture. I was able to turn both light and fan or each one seperately.

I hope this answers your question.
 
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Old 05-02-10, 03:08 PM
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Meters that measure current typically have a closed jaw that clamps around a conductor to measure. The meter you described with two leads and a voltage scale sounds like what you need.
 
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Old 05-03-10, 07:27 AM
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I'm sorry. It doesn't have a voltage "scale". It's just a tester to see if there is a current..red light on if there is current...no light if there is none.
 
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Old 05-03-10, 08:37 AM
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Originally Posted by eddiethouston
I'm sorry. It doesn't have a voltage "scale". It's just a tester to see if there is a current..red light on if there is current...no light if there is none.
Do you mean something like this except just a neon light on the probes?

 
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Old 05-03-10, 09:37 AM
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You can find a cheap multimeter for under $10. Go get one, the continuity setting (ohms) is very important for troubleshooting what wires go where.
 
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Old 05-03-10, 03:24 PM
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Very much like that. The light is on the body. black probe and red probe. I guess I need to get something that actually measures the current. I have a friend coming over to look at it tonight. Hopefully, he can figure it out.
 
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Old 05-03-10, 03:40 PM
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Originally Posted by eddiethouston
Very much like that. The light is on the body. black probe and red probe. I guess I need to get something that actually measures the current. I have a friend coming over to look at it tonight. Hopefully, he can figure it out.
No, you don't need something to measure current. You need exactly what you have, a voltage tester. Now that we know you have a voltage tester follow my original request. We need to know the readings from the black to white of each 2-conductor cable. Any wires connected together need to be labeled and temporarily disconnected. I suspect at least one of those cables is a switch loop. Measure the voltage between the black and white of each cable. Measuring voltages from black to white on a cable that is a switch loop should give you 0 volts. If the light on your tester lights then it is a "hot" cable.
 
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Old 05-04-10, 04:35 AM
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Ray,

Thanks for the input. Unfortunately, the wires were already disconnected from the switches thus the original problem in my first message-I needed to figure out how to put it back together. That said, I had a friend come over and help and he figured it out.

Here's the solution (not saying is the right one, but it seems to work and I believe this was the original hookup) :

BW1 -black to Terminal 1 Switch 1, White to common terminal of Switch 2
BW2 -black to Terminal 2 Switch 1
BW3 -black to A1 terminal of Switch 2
BW4 - black to B1 terminal of Switch 2
The white wires of BW2,3 &4 are tied back together.

Switch 1 operates a bath light, Switch 2 (double switch) operates the bath fan/light fixture seperately.

Thanks for all the input.
 
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Old 05-04-10, 06:25 AM
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The danger of hooking up something so that it "works" with switching is in switching your neutral wire instead of your hot. That will "work", but it's illegal and dangerous. My recommendation would be to disassemble everything and find exactly what wires go where and how the system works. Leaving it like it is has the potential to hurt someone, in the case that it is done incorrectly.
 
 

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