help installing a ceiling fan
#41
Member
I'm still a bit confused. If one were to take a wire from A and short it to B, the result would be twice as much current flow than if shorting A to neutral or B to neutral wouldn't it?
#42
Yeah, you didn't think anyone saw that before you deleted it, did you?
#43
That's why the breakers serving both sides MUST be handle tied
lol its late... i caught it is all that matters lol.
#44
You are most likely to touch one terminal plus ground, which would give you a 120v jolt no matter which leg you touch. If you were unlucky enough to touch both screws simultaneously, your body would be conducting 240v to ground, which is twice as likely to be lethal.
#45
body would be conducting 240v to ground, which is twice as likely to be lethal.
#46
I didn't state anything to do with AA or BB would be acceptable. I said they must be fed with a MWBC (which requires adjacent breakers (handle tied in all cases required as of NEC2008) or two separate circuits with adjacent handle tied breakers. I only mentioned them on the same leg because I was making the point that it has no impact on the rating of the switch, since they are two completely independent switches with the tab broken. Whether it was both legs of a MWBC or two separate circuits with separate neutrals, it makes no difference, because it is two separate switches rated at 120v.
TECHNICALLY, if the two circuits were fed with individual cables with separate neutrals (NOT MWBC), they could be landed on both terminals of the same tandem breaker, which would put both terminals of the switch on the same leg. Depending on which code the AHJ is going by and the mood the inspector is in, this MIGHT be acceptable using a piece of bent #12 or a 4/40 screw and a couple nuts as a tie. However, NEC2005 requires handle ties to be UL listed and there are no listed ties for tandems in the same space. I would not risk getting red-tagged for something that dumb, so I would only put it in as a MWBC.
Last edited by JerseyMatt; 09-07-10 at 11:17 PM.
#47
yea thats it. Its proves im human and its late. Im not on here to prove anything to anyone like you are trying to do.
I have wasted enough time with you. Ill see you around in the post that you never have any logical answers to.
I have wasted enough time with you. Ill see you around in the post that you never have any logical answers to.
#48
The only one with wrong/illogical answers is you. You have been repeatedly proven wrong but you are too stubborn to realize it. The only thing you have proven here is that you are a liability because you don't have any idea what you're talking about.
Last edited by pcboss; 09-08-10 at 08:36 AM. Reason: derogatory comment
#51
I believe Hunter provides a remote holder with longer plate screws to insert over the switch, which holds it in an "on" position, while providing a convenient remote storage device. The holder may even be generic, so check at the fan store to see if it is available.
#53
Member
If you were unlucky enough to touch both screws simultaneously, your body would be conducting 240v to ground, which is twice as likely to be lethal.
Exactly the answer I was looking for. I didn't mean to imply that it was likely, I was simply making an observation. Thanks. However, it wouldn't be to ground right? You would essentially be completing a path from the "top" of the transformer winding to the "bottom", no ground involved. Please correct me if I'm wrong.
wrong... 120v is more dangerous the 240v. Single phase grabs you and want let go. Just like 277 single phase is bad. 240v will hurt like hell but, it will let go.
Last edited by mossman; 09-08-10 at 10:43 AM.
#54
Increase in voltage equals an increased potential for more current flow, thus it is more lethal. I'm strictly speaking about electrical theory, not any specific application.
P.S. Also its really the amperage that does the damage, not the voltage. You are confused on that part.
#55
Member
120V kills more people than any other voltage out there. 277V is 120 on steroids. It will grab you and you will pray to god the whole time it will let go of you.
#56
Because 120V is more common due to a residential setting is fed 120/240.. Your 277/480 is commercial and its not as likely for some DIYer to mess with it.
No i am not. It depends on how much of a load is on it. And it is more voltage so it will hurt more of course. Im not the best at explaining things man try to find someone else to explain it for you. I have to run. Sorry.
What you're basically saying is that if you had a choice to grab a wire with 277 or one with 120, you would grab the 277. Think about it.
#57
Member
I'm not asking for an explanation, those were rhetorical questions--ones that you should ask yourself. I'm trying to make a point and you keep contradicting yourself. You said 120 is more lethal than 277--not true. More fatal--perhaps--for the very reason I said--it is more common in the household and therefore results in more fatalities.
#58
I get it man. You have no point to make because I already understand. You are the one asking the questions not me.
120 FATAL(KILLS) i said! I did not write the statistics. Fatal and lethal are the same thing so rephrase your question to someone else.
What are you trying to prove anyway? What color is circuit #24 on a 277/480V system since you know it all? What color would that circuit be on a 120/208 service? How bout that. Running circuits by color on a 120/208
circuit #
3
5
8
12
give me the color of each branch circuit. Lets see what you know
120 FATAL(KILLS) i said! I did not write the statistics. Fatal and lethal are the same thing so rephrase your question to someone else.
What are you trying to prove anyway? What color is circuit #24 on a 277/480V system since you know it all? What color would that circuit be on a 120/208 service? How bout that. Running circuits by color on a 120/208
circuit #
3
5
8
12
give me the color of each branch circuit. Lets see what you know
#59
Member
I don't know because I'm not an electrician and therefore do not need to know what the colors are, but if I was an electrician and needed to know, I sure as hell would. I do know that I know a hell of a lot more than you about electrical and electronics theory in general. And most if not all questions directed towards you were rhetorical. I stated my post directed to JerseyMatt about the 240V being more of a shock hazard in the form of a question for the sake of argument. I was 99.9% that I knew the answer, but wasn't getting the answer I was looking for, which I eventually did. I don't think any would disagree that you evidently don't know what you're talking about and seem to be getting your information from Google.3
Here's a riddle for you: Using ohm's law, what happens to I when V is increased considering a fixed load? And since you want to talk about 3-phase power, how is three phase power created and how does the POCO get 120V to a residence? Again, I know the answers to these questions. These are for you to answer for yourself.
Here's a riddle for you: Using ohm's law, what happens to I when V is increased considering a fixed load? And since you want to talk about 3-phase power, how is three phase power created and how does the POCO get 120V to a residence? Again, I know the answers to these questions. These are for you to answer for yourself.
Last edited by mossman; 09-08-10 at 01:20 PM.
#60
There is no mandated color code for circuits. I could run purple, orange and black for 277/480. There are conventions but that does not mean it is required.
#61
IIRC, the only mandated phase color is orange on the high leg of a 120/240Δ. Other than that, it's just the 'commonly accepted' color code(s) - Black-Red-Blue, Brown-Orange-Yellow(Δ), and Brown-Purple-Yellow (Y). But you ARE required to be consistent throughout. If phase A is purple, you must use purple for phase A throughout the entire installation. You can't change to black.
#62
Member
Reading books, yes, that is how you learn things. And I never claimed to know everything. You may "make it work" at the end of the day, but that doesn't mean it was done properly. And by the sound of things, more times than not it probably wasn't. Electricity is nothing to mess around with, and you could very well be contributing to the 120V fatality statistic. I know I wouldn't want you working on my house. Not here to make enemies or belittle anyone, but you need to admit/realize when you are wrong.
Lethal and fatal are not the same. More lethal means more inclined to cause death, fatal means death occured. Therefore, 240V is more lethal than 120V, and accorinding to your statistic, 120V causes more fatalities.
Fatal and lethal are the same thing so rephrase your question to someone else.
Last edited by mossman; 09-08-10 at 02:26 PM.
#63
Just want to head up anymore off topic discussion will end up either lock up or delete it we do not want to scare any more OP's out of the forum and it almost out of the hand on this matter so we will watch this section pretty close.
If that discussion is related to the OP's issue then stick to it.
Merci.
Marc
If that discussion is related to the OP's issue then stick to it.
Merci.
Marc