Siemens panel with Murray Breakers

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Old 10-15-10, 01:35 PM
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Siemens panel with Murray Breakers

I have a Siemens 30/30 panel in the house I purchased and it is filled with 26 Murray MP-T breakers and 2 Siemens QP breakers. I know that Siemens owns Murray and their breakers are identical except for the name listed on it, but the Siemens panel does not list Murray breakers as accepted, only Siemens. I beleive this panel was origianlly installed this way by the builder and must have passed inspection. Is it ok to leave the panel like this or should I be switching out 26 breakers to the approved type?

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Old 10-15-10, 02:30 PM
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Leave it alone..........................
 
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Old 10-15-10, 03:30 PM
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The Murry breakers are not listed to be used in the Siemens panel and therefore are a code violation. That said however this is many times allowed by inspectors because they fit and this is why it passed. I would say it is your option if you want to replace the breakers. Depending on the amps and if they are single or double pole breakers you would be looking at $75 - $150 worth of breakers.
 

Last edited by Tolyn Ironhand; 10-16-10 at 06:50 AM.
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Old 10-15-10, 06:43 PM
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The Murray breakers are indentical to Siemens, probably come from the same plant and most likely the same assembly line, but they are not listed for use in a Siemens loadcenter (like TI said). The inspector should never have passed this installation, but he did. Under the circumstances, I'd probably leave them alone too, but it is technically a code violation.
 
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Old 10-16-10, 12:45 AM
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It kinda hard to tell how old this load centre but if it was pretty recently modern set up I will just leave it alone but suprised that the inspection did pass that part and yeah unforetally it is code voilations due it not in the listing.

So that kinda of sticky issue.

Merci.
Marc
 
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Old 10-16-10, 01:25 PM
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If the house was built relatively recently, you might want to go to the building department and do some research into the permit, the inspector, and the contractor. If somewhere along the line there is an electrical fire related to the panel, the EC and the inspector who passed the bad work could be held liable. "Construction Defect" laws and their statutes of limitation vary by state (2-10 years, depending on the defect and when/how it was discovered), but it is worth looking into if the house was built within the last several years, because you could sue to have the defect corrected.
 
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Old 10-20-10, 11:35 AM
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Breakers from Lowes v Industrial Supply Store

Is there any difference between the Siemens Q120 breakers sold at Lowes for $3.75 a piece as opposed to an industrial supply store such as Grainger for $13.25 a piece?? I can't find a difference.

Circuit Breaker, 1Pole, 20A, QP, 120V, 10kA - Circuit Breakers - Distribution - Electrical : Grainger Industrial Supply

Shop Siemens QP Single-Pole 20-Amp Circuit Breaker at Lowes.com
 
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Old 10-20-10, 11:55 AM
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Originally Posted by hammerdown22 View Post
Is there any difference between the Siemens Q120 breakers sold at Lowes for $3.75 a piece as opposed to an industrial supply store such as Grainger for $13.25 a piece?? I can't find a difference.

Circuit Breaker, 1Pole, 20A, QP, 120V, 10kA - Circuit Breakers - Distribution - Electrical : Grainger Industrial Supply

Shop Siemens QP Single-Pole 20-Amp Circuit Breaker at Lowes.com

There is no differnce on the breaker itself however the way they set the price the Big Bleu have priced due the bulk buying while Grainer is more commercal/industrial service and if you do not have a commercal account with them they will follow the catalog price.

I have commercal account so I can able knock the price down a bit but it will varies a bit depending on what I order.

Merci.
Marc
 
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Old 10-20-10, 12:08 PM
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Originally Posted by hammerdown22 View Post
Is there any difference between the Siemens Q120 breakers sold at Lowes for $3.75 a piece as opposed to an industrial supply store such as Grainger for $13.25 a piece?? I can't find a difference.
There is no difference. The supplier should apply a "discount schedule" to the catalog price to get something close to what retail price should be. I don't know why they bother with such complicated and outdated pricing structures anymore. All the catalog prices are outrageously high and no one (should) ever actually pay it.
 
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Old 10-20-10, 12:16 PM
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Hammerdown.,

If you have Electrical supply centre near your area if so then you should check on them and they are genrally pretty close to the retail price at the big box store.

{ Note : not all electrical supply centres will carry everything so check it ahead of the time. ( a quick phonecall or email them useally confirm the question you are looking for.) }

Merci.
Marc
 
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Old 10-20-10, 03:24 PM
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Where can you find the information to what circuit breakers will work in what panels (interchangable). and which code reference makes it not doeable.
 
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Old 10-20-10, 05:19 PM
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Typically you will find a label inside the panel that will have the type of breakers allowed to be used in that panel. There are some breakers that are classified for use in other panels, which is somewhat of a labeling conundrum.

The applicable article would be 110.3(B) which says that you must use a product the way it was listed and labeled.
 
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Old 10-20-10, 05:54 PM
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Grainger is high on most items AFTER the commercial discount is applied. The advantage is their inventory. If you need it quickly, they have it.
 
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Old 10-20-10, 06:01 PM
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Where can you find the information to what circuit breakers will work in what panels (interchangable).
You can ask right here on this forum. This is something you learn with experience. I have never seen a complete comprehensive listing of brands and what panels they are listed to be used in other than a one page sheet with brands that had been acquired by Eaton Corp.
 
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Old 10-20-10, 06:30 PM
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So then why do the first couple of posts say it is against code to put murray breaker in a siemens panel if the manufactuer will not list competiteve replacement breakers in their panel literature. how does anybody know it is not listed by a third party.
 

Last edited by bobbi 5; 10-20-10 at 06:38 PM. Reason: mispelled word
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Old 10-20-10, 06:40 PM
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Originally Posted by bobbi 5 View Post
So then why do the first couple of posts say it is against code to put murray breaker in a siemens panel if the manufactuer will not list competiteve replacement breakers in their panel literature. how do they know it is not listed by a third paty.
Because, the Murray branded breakers have not been tested by nor have they been listed by U.L. to be used in a Siemens branded loadcenter. Any competitive branded breakers that are U.L. Listed for use in the Siemens branded loadcenter will be listed on the label inside the loadcenter door. The NEC requires that breakers be U.L. Listed for the loadcenter, or panel, in which they are installed.
 
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Old 10-21-10, 09:39 AM
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You can also sometimes get the information from the breaker manufacturer's website or help line. The supply house usually has a big stack of catalogs from each company that lists product specs too.
 
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Old 09-19-14, 01:43 PM
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There i much confusion about different breakers in panels. When the NEC says the breaker must be "listed" they are talking about UL o another testing organization authorized to make the determination, Not the list on the panel manufacturers box.

Think about this. Does anyone believe a panel manufacturer would have some invisible man come out to everyone's house to update the list on the box,every time a competitor comes out with a breaker for that box????

When a box with a new design of breaker is first manufactured, only that manufacturers breakers will work. Until, of course, patents run out and others start producing.
 
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Old 09-19-14, 02:23 PM
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Welcome to the forums, kca. Please check the dates in the future, you have responded to a four year old thread.
 
 

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