hockey shooter tutor that sets off light - suggestions?

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Old 12-06-10, 02:06 PM
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hockey shooter tutor that sets off light - suggestions?

Hi
I have a question about a trigger system. I want to make a hockey shooter tutor as depicted in the images below. The puck passes through a hole in some plywood, and sets of a light to reward the shooter. Here are my ideal operation parameters:
1) light is AC - household wall plug, because this will be outside on a rink
2) putting puck through any hole should set off the light.
3) the light and trigger system should reset by itself in a short period of time - 5 seconds or less - to facilitate rapid fire sessions with several pucks
4) I am not an electrician so speak slowly...
Thanks for sharing your thoughts.

Yes, the light will be behind a mesh barrier so shooters don't pick it as target #6!
 
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Old 12-07-10, 05:30 AM
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Use a flapper on the back of each hole. The flapper could be as simple as a chunk of rubber screwed to the top of the back of the hole. As the puck passes through, the flapper's movement would close a microswitch (sample only). All of the microswitches would be wired in parallel to the coil of a timed relay, which in turn controls the light.

Ice eventually turns to water, so it's not a good idea to use 120 volts AC. Instead, use a motorcyle battery. It can be charged between uses and should last all day since it will only be drawing power for a few seconds at a time.
 
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Old 12-07-10, 08:35 AM
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Or a magnetic switch because since there is no contact it might hold up better then a micro switch in the long run. The micro switch will take a minor hard pounding each time the flap moves.

I'm thinking there should be some type of timed latching relay so the light is on a full five seconds but that is above my skill level.

I'd sugest both a light and a klaxon horn but that would probably require a biger battery and more on time.
 
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Old 12-07-10, 02:41 PM
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Yes, a flap is what I was thinking originally I cannot think of how a rubber/flexible flap would trigger the switch. I can now see how to do it with something hard and hinged. What do you think of the setup in the diagram below - too many parts to break?

I posed this problem over at an electronics forum and someone there are thinking of how to do this with a coil and magnets in the puck. Fewer moving parts for sure... I was thinking garage door safety sensors...


 
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Old 12-07-10, 04:47 PM
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With a magnetic switch you would mount a small magnet on the bottom back of the flap and the switch immediately below. You would use a NC (normally closed) switch. The magnet holds it open. When the flap with the magnet moves the magnet away the switch closes.
 
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Old 12-07-10, 05:03 PM
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Good idea. A magnetic door switch is slightly more expensive than a micro, but the lack of (external) moving parts will make it more reliable. I, too, thought of garage door safety sensors, but even the raw parts (photosensor) are much more expensive. Plus, the puck could slip through the beam without breaking it.

I still like the idea of a soft plastic or rubber flap instead of a hard one. As an added benefit, the damping it provides may eliminated the need for the netting at each hole.

Nix the idea of inserting magnets into the pucks. The magnets would have to be very beefy to produce a large enough field to trigger a switch from a distance of 3 or 4 inches.

Ray, I linked to a timed relay in my post above.

Good project, Mr Fitz! Hopefully we'll see this on the market someday.

On an entirely different approach: Some Smart Boards (Interactive Whiteboards) use tiny cameras in three corners to triangulate the position of a wand or finger on the board to control a mouse cursor. Hmmm ...
 
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Old 12-07-10, 05:34 PM
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Rick I missed you relay link when I first read the post. I agree rubber flaps are better. You can buy sheets of rubber gasket material and cut to size. I have made flaps for pet doors out of discarded rubber car mats. The below is not scale. The switches will be smaller then shown. I suggest Pop-Riveting the magnets on the flap.

 

Last edited by ray2047; 12-07-10 at 06:15 PM.
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Old 12-07-10, 06:51 PM
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I have no idea what their proper name is, and my searching has come up empty, but I've seen a few businesses that have weighted 'flapper' type switches connected to a doorbell to announce when someone comes in. They mount to the top of the door frame and the 'flapper' hangs in the path of the door. They only trip on the opening swing (so the bell doesn't ring again when the door closes), and they are metal. You could easily attach a large rubber target to the flapper arm. I wish I could give you more info on them, because I think they would be ideal for this project. Maybe someone else knows what I'm talking about??

(Oh, and the '5 hole' is a little high.. )
 
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Old 12-08-10, 07:35 AM
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Okay, the magnetic switch path it is.
Will this magnetic switch behave with the timed relay Rick indicates above, with this 12v beacon light hooked to this 12v deep cycle marine starting battery (fortunately, I have this part already)?

I am going to have to splice the beacon wires assuming it has a cigarette lighter plug. Should be no big deal?

thanks all!

(5-hole is that high Matt, when the goalies are really, really tall : ))
 
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Old 12-08-10, 01:29 PM
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The magnetic switch will work. It controls the relay so very little current is handled by it. My only concern is the magnet side of the switch. I would use small brass (not steel) machine screws (bolts) to help hold them on and bed them in a little silicon sealant. If the plastic ears proved to flimisy in use even with the sillicon I would put an aluminum strap over the magnet to hold it on.

 
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Old 12-19-10, 07:10 AM
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appropriate 120v to 12v transformer?

I have built a prototype "flapper" - it works well - has taken a lot of pucks. 8" diameter hole/target is HARD to hit - going up to 10". I am waiting for my beacon light and magnetic switches to arrive, but...

I realized this morning, I neglected to order my timer/delay module and I thought I might get a transformer while I am at it, just in case I decide I don't want to use the battery for whatever reason. Will this 120v to 12v transformer do the trick? 500mA - is too much/too little? Is this a bad idea?
Alternatives?
thanks
 
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Old 12-19-10, 09:36 AM
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It would depend on the combined amperage of the beacon and any audible signaling device you used.
 
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Old 12-19-10, 11:49 AM
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Using an optronics rb-10a - packaging says nothing about specs.
I am opting for no sound device since the neighbours already have to deal with the sound of pucks hitting plywood

Does "10a" mean something? Hazard a guess at what amperage? Is too much or too little okay, or need just the right amount of amps?

thanks
mr_fitz
 
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Old 12-19-10, 12:54 PM
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Does "10a" mean something?
Yes. 10amps, about 9 times the output of the power supply you linked to. But in this case it may just be part of the model number and mean nothing. The "a" may simply indicate amber color. However I would be surprised to find an incandescent flasher that required less then several amps and the power supply you linked to is only 0.6 amps. Not that I'm sure it is incandescent.

It could probably be powered directly from a battery charger, no battery needed. If you have a 6 amp or larger charger with a gauge try it and see if it pegs the meter. If it doesn't your good to go.
 

Last edited by ray2047; 12-19-10 at 01:15 PM.
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Old 12-19-10, 01:05 PM
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why dont you use a diode between the battery and the load, and wire the power supply directly to the load, so if the power is interuppted, you can keep playing.
 
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Old 12-19-10, 01:11 PM
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Originally Posted by Justin Smith View Post
why dont you use a diode between the battery and the load, and wire the power supply directly to the load, so if the power is interuppted, you can keep playing.
As this isn't mission critical I doubt that would be needed.
 
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Old 12-19-10, 05:57 PM
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Ray, jerry(jury?)-rigging a battery charger is likely beyond me (or I missed your point). I am going to assume that more is better when it comes to this power supply. After looking around and seeing that 12v coolers (for drinks/food) draw no more than 5 amps, I am also going to assume my incandescent beacon light with rotating platform will draw between 1 and 5 amps? Thus, I am looking at the adapters that are used for these 12V coolers when you bring from car to home. Found one that provides 5 amps 12v power.

thanks.
 
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Old 12-19-10, 06:24 PM
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Ray, jerry(jury?)-rigging a battery charger is likely beyond me (or I missed your point).
No jerry rigging. Just clip the positive to the positive side of the circuit and negative to negative. While the lights and the switch aren't polarized the relay is because it contains electronics.

Thus, I am looking at the adapters that are used for these 12V coolers when you bring from car to home. Found one that provides 5 amps 12v power.
That will probably be ok.
 
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Old 12-20-10, 06:15 AM
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When you get the beacon see if you can unscrew the tip off the cigarette lighter plug. There should be a fuse inside. The amp rating of the fuse is the rating you'll need for a 12v power supply.
 
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Old 12-21-10, 03:39 PM
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wiring?

I posted some prototype photos (reply #16)and my first cut at how I would wire this thing at a different forum (too bad, no attachments here...). The mechanical bits work fine, the flapper kicks to puck back onto the ice - which I think will be better than catching it behind the boards in a net or something - the light is what will signify a hit.

See the sample wiring diagram there and my questions - basically:
1) This is to be wired in series? 2) How to wire the delay switch is not clear to me since the manual doesn't seem to list "hockey shooter tutor" as one of the examples

btw Rick, you assumed I bought a good quality beacon...took apart the plug and no fuse...this is what you get for $20 I suppose. The 12V cooler AC adapter works fine though.
thanks.
 
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Old 12-21-10, 06:00 PM
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I would suggest a piece of bungee cord stretched tight across the flapper. Some hardware stores sell it by the foot.

I would not mount a magnetic switch on steel but I could be wrong.

The switches need to be parallel wired not series wired because they are NO (normally open). There might be a way to use NC switches and series wiring with the relay but without seeing the wiring sheet I can't say.
 
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Old 12-21-10, 11:31 PM
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Seven 1/4-20 bolts for each hinge?!?! My friend, you know how to build things for hockey players!

Switches wired in series means that all of the switches have to be on in order to turn on the light. Your drawing shows the switches wired in series, a.k.a. "daisy chain".

Your switches all need to be wired in parallel. That way, any one of the switches will turn on the light.

Here's the way I would wire it:

 
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Old 12-22-10, 07:06 AM
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thanks! (N/C switches?...)

Big thanks Rick for taking the time to do up that diagram.
Ray's post has me concerned though...

I think I have ordered the wrong magnetic switches . The two parts of the switches will be together at rest (potential ambiguity in my original diagram). Based on the wiring below in your diagram Rick, I would need N/O magnetic switches? If you assumed I have N/C switches, all is good.

If you assumed I have N/O switches I have two options:
1) go buy some N/O magnetic switches (likely would go this route)
2) mount the switches so they are offset at rest so the magnet swings by the contact instead of being together at rest. QUESTION - If I do this, do I simply move the wire to the beacon from the N/O contact to the N/C contact on the timer?; or is the wiring completely changed?

Ray, I tried a bungee to hold the flapper tight to the hole, but the flapper actually bounces back when the puck misses the target but hits the surrounding board. If the flapper just dangles, all vibrations are only transmitted to the hinge pivot, so there is no movement as a result.

thanks.
 
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Old 12-22-10, 08:33 AM
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You can use a multimeter or even the beacon and power supply to see if they are NC. Just test for continuity with no magnet near. If you have continuity it is NC with no magnet.

I previously wrote:
You would use a NC (normally closed) switch. The magnet holds it open. When the flap with the magnet moves the magnet away the switch closes
Does that help?

The switch at your original link was NC. Surface Mounted Wired Glazed Door Window Magnetic Sensor Switch Alarm
 
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Old 01-02-11, 08:10 PM
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"Completed" version

After finally receiving the delay timer and magnetic switches, and discovering you get what you pay for in a $1.38 switch (unlreliable), I went with a much simpler switch design altogether (as suggested by somebody on the other forum).
Make Your Own Hockey Electronic Shooter Tutor
Thanks for all the help!
 
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