GFCI without ground can't get inspection passed.

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Old 12-24-10, 01:07 PM
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GFCI without ground can't get inspection passed.

I have a rental home.

I have installed several GFCI outlets without a ground wire because one is not available.The inspector will not pass the inspection without them being grounded.

He said some gibberish about running nuetral to ground or something.

What can I do?
 
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Old 12-24-10, 02:07 PM
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He said some gibberish about running nuetral to ground or something.
That is a dangerous violation of code.
This being Christmas Eve the pros may not be around much but one of them should be around to give you the section of the NEC that permits ungrounded GFCI's. You can politely provide the inspector with that section. Last resort you may have to speak to his supervisor.

You say this is a rental you own. Was this an electrical inspector or a home inspector? If a home inspector I would suggest you call the local electrical inspector and tell him a home inspector advised you to use bootleg neutrals. If it is an electrical inspector it may be best to hire a licensed electrician to deal with him.
 

Last edited by ray2047; 12-24-10 at 09:09 PM. Reason: Misleading and/or incorrect statement.
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Old 12-24-10, 02:07 PM
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Originally Posted by jnt419oh View Post
I have installed several GFCI outlets without a ground wire because one is not available.The inspector will not pass the inspection without them being grounded.
B.S. As long as there is a sticker that reads "No Equipment Ground", it is perfectly legal.

Originally Posted by jnt419oh View Post
He said some gibberish about running nuetral to ground or something.
It is called bootlegging, and is ILLEGAL, and very UNSAFE. He better lose his liscence, because he just told you to violate code and failed to pass something legal.
 
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Old 12-24-10, 02:17 PM
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Thanks for the tips.

I guess I will go talk to the inspection office on Monday morning.It would be nice to have the sections of code to show them so I can get this passed.

James

EDIT:
I don't have the stickers anymore.Anyone know where I can purchase them?Or can I use a marker or something?
 
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Old 12-24-10, 02:22 PM
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Yeah, my understanding is GFCIs are a good alternative in homes old enough to not have grounding
 
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Old 12-24-10, 04:01 PM
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Originally Posted by ray2047 View Post
Politely ask him for the section of the NEC that requires grounds on the GFCI. There isn't one.
There absolutely is and it is 406.4B and the only exception to this is 406.4D
406.4B Receptacles and cord connectors that have equipment grounding conductor contacts shall have those contacts connected to an equipment grounding conductor.

Non grounding type receptacle replacement

406.4(d)2(b) A non-grounding type receptacle(s) shall be permitted to be replaced with a ground fault circuit interrupter type of receptacle(s). These receptacles shall be marked "No Equipment Ground". An Equipment grounding conductor shall not be connected from the ground fault circuit interrupter type receptacle to any outlet supplied from the ground fault circuit interrupter receptacle
406.4(D)(2)(C) A non-grounding type receptacle(s) shall be permitted to be replaced with a grounding type receptacle(s) where supplied through a ground-fault circuit interrupter. Grounding-type receptacles supplied through the ground fault circuit interrupter shall be marked "GFCI Protected" and "No Equipment Ground". An equipment grounding conductor shall not be connected between the grounding type receptacles.
The above code allows you to replace 2 prong ungrounded receptacles with grounding type receptacles so long as they are GFCI protected and labeled "GFCI protected, No Equipment Ground"


A few things worth noting
1. Local amendments may apply to the code sections above
2. Depending on code cycle these GFCIs may also need to be of the tamper resistant type.
 
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Old 12-24-10, 04:44 PM
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Thanks for all the info guys,

I am just going to bootleg them like he said.Then once he passes the inspection I will go back and undo it.

That will fix em
 
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Old 12-24-10, 05:35 PM
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It still might be a good idea to do some investigation into what code your locality requires you meet and any amendments, if any, have been adopted. Contrary to popular belief, the inspector cannot make up requirements. Any amendments must be adopted by ordinance and not be made up by the yocal inspector. Ooops....I meant local. It also would be helpful to find out if the local AHJ requires older homes wired without ground wires to be rewired or upgraded to the current code. I doubt it does.
 
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Old 12-24-10, 08:30 PM
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Originally Posted by jnt419oh View Post
Thanks for all the info guys,

I am just going to bootleg them like he said.Then once he passes the inspection I will go back and undo it.

That will fix em

No don't do that and I will advise you to talk to the inspector about the whole details and please do print this page and show it to him if refuse just go to supervisor or call that state office they will help you on this matter.

Merci.
Marc
 
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Old 12-24-10, 09:12 PM
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Danny wrote:
Originally Posted by ray2047
Politely ask him for the section of the NEC that requires grounds on the GFCI. There isn't one.
There absolutely is and it is 406.4B and the only exception to this is 406.4D
Thank you for the correction. I have edited that comment from my post.
 
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Old 12-25-10, 05:20 AM
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I'm with French277V on this one.
 
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