Hot tub GFI keeps tripping!!
#1
12-27-10, 10:22 AM
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: USA
Posts: 22
Received 0 Votes
on
0 Posts
Hot tub GFI keeps tripping!!
Welcome to Flickr!
I just bought a used hot tub, and i just had an electrician wire it up. It is a 220V hot tub, which he used 8-3 wire, a 50 amp breaker in the panel, and a 50 amp gfi in the disconnect out by the hot tub. I filled it up with water and as soon as i turned on the gfi breaker it tripped immediatley. After fiddling around with it for a little while, i turned it on and it stayed on for about 2 hrs and then tripped back out, and ever since whenever i turn on the gfi breaker is trips right away. I disconnected the neutral and two hots from the gfi and it still trips immediatly. I then wired the hot tub directly to the main panel, skipping the gfi, and it runs perfectly fine. What could be causing it to trip? Could it be that it is 8-3 wire on a 50 amp gfi? Im sure everything is wired correctly. I will include a picture of the disconnect just to be sure. Any suggestions are greatly appreciated!!
I just bought a used hot tub, and i just had an electrician wire it up. It is a 220V hot tub, which he used 8-3 wire, a 50 amp breaker in the panel, and a 50 amp gfi in the disconnect out by the hot tub. I filled it up with water and as soon as i turned on the gfi breaker it tripped immediatley. After fiddling around with it for a little while, i turned it on and it stayed on for about 2 hrs and then tripped back out, and ever since whenever i turn on the gfi breaker is trips right away. I disconnected the neutral and two hots from the gfi and it still trips immediatly. I then wired the hot tub directly to the main panel, skipping the gfi, and it runs perfectly fine. What could be causing it to trip? Could it be that it is 8-3 wire on a 50 amp gfi? Im sure everything is wired correctly. I will include a picture of the disconnect just to be sure. Any suggestions are greatly appreciated!!
#2
12-27-10, 10:26 AM
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: USA
Posts: 22
Received 0 Votes
on
0 Posts
Sorry, whenever i said i disconnected the neutral and the two hots from he gfi and it still tripped, i am talking about the neutral and the two hots that are going from he gfi to the hot tub. So i completely disconnected the hot tub and the gfi still tripped. Just wanted to make myself a little more clear!
#4
12-27-10, 10:42 AM
Member
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Cressona, Pa, USA
Posts: 2,541
Received 0 Votes
on
0 Posts
I know that 8/3 is too small for a 50amp breaker, but that would not be what it is causing it to trip.
#5
12-27-10, 10:42 AM
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: USA
Posts: 22
Received 0 Votes
on
0 Posts
That shouldof been a link to a picture i imported of the gfi disconnect, does it not show up?
#6
12-27-10, 10:50 AM
Shows up for me....sometimes the links take a bit to be functional it seems. Depends on when you look at it somehow.
Sure doesn't look like any disconnect I ever saw for a hot tub though. Not that I've seen that many.
Sure doesn't look like any disconnect I ever saw for a hot tub though. Not that I've seen that many.
#7
12-27-10, 10:55 AM
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: USA
Posts: 22
Received 0 Votes
on
0 Posts
Yeah the electrician said he hadnt seen any like that either, he said the two hots usually arent that close to eachother and they usually arent that close to the neutral bar. I bout that at home depot, it came as a kit with the 50 amp gfi breaker inside, it said it was for hot tubs...
#8
12-27-10, 11:00 AM
Member
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Cressona, Pa, USA
Posts: 2,541
Received 0 Votes
on
0 Posts
#11
12-27-10, 11:36 AM
Group Moderator
Post a link directly to the photo - I think your Flickr link works only for those who have an account
http://forum.doityourself.com/electr...your-post.html
http://forum.doityourself.com/electr...your-post.html
#12
12-27-10, 11:56 AM
Call the electrician back. Hot tubs can be dangerous. While wiring them from scratch can be a job for an experienced DIYer, finding and fixing an accidental mistake by an electrician you paid to do the job shouldn't be your job.
To insert an image the file format must be an image format such as jpg, or png, or gif. Yours doesn't end in any of them. Once spent 20 minutes trying to figure out how to embed a Flickr photo but finally gave up.There are far easier sites to use.
To insert an image the file format must be an image format such as jpg, or png, or gif. Yours doesn't end in any of them. Once spent 20 minutes trying to figure out how to embed a Flickr photo but finally gave up.There are far easier sites to use.
Last edited by ray2047; 12-27-10 at 12:49 PM.
#13
12-27-10, 12:01 PM
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: USA
Posts: 22
Received 0 Votes
on
0 Posts
Last edited by ray2047; 12-27-10 at 12:08 PM. Reason: To Embed Photo
#14
12-27-10, 12:06 PM
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: USA
Posts: 22
Received 0 Votes
on
0 Posts
It is the gfi breaker that is tripping, not the one in my breaker panel. I already called the electrician back, he said he can come out and take a look at it but he has no idea of what it could be. He said he is sure everything is wired where it should be, and he explained where each wire should be and it is just like he said.
#15
12-27-10, 12:12 PM
Group Moderator
OK, can see the pictures - trying to rub your car in our faces? 
I'm with Ray - you paid someone for this, have them come back and get it right
I'm with Ray - you paid someone for this, have them come back and get it right
#16
12-27-10, 12:13 PM
As stated earlier 8-3 wire is too small (unless the house breaker is 40a). In addition if this is outside bare grounds are noi allowed and it appears to have been wired with cable not intended for outside use.
If this is outside I can believe that.
he said he can come out and take a look at it but he has no idea of what it could be
Last edited by ray2047; 12-27-10 at 12:45 PM. Reason: To clarify cable size comment.
#17
12-27-10, 12:18 PM
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: USA
Posts: 22
Received 0 Votes
on
0 Posts
The electrician told me to get that kind of wire, its nice to know that i spend $160 on wire, and now i need to replace it!! But would that be causing the gfci to trip?
#18
12-27-10, 12:39 PM
Originally Posted by Sjones1088
The electrician told me to get that kind of wire, its nice to know that i spend $160 on wire, and now i need to replace it!! But would that be causing the gfci to trip?
#19
12-27-10, 12:51 PM
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: USA
Posts: 22
Received 0 Votes
on
0 Posts
The breaker on the inside panel is also a 50 amp breaker. The hot tub is outside, right up against the basement wall. The wire goes through he basement wall, directly into the back of the disconnect, which is about 5 feet from the hot tub. From there, the wire is in conduit going directly into the hot tub. Below is a link to the gfci panel that i have
GE 50 amp 240-Volt 240-Watt Non-Fuse Metallic Spa Panel Disconnect with GFI - UG412RMW250P at The Home Depot
GE 50 amp 240-Volt 240-Watt Non-Fuse Metallic Spa Panel Disconnect with GFI - UG412RMW250P at The Home Depot
#20
12-27-10, 01:42 PM
Originally Posted by Sjones1088
The breaker on the inside panel is also a 50 amp breaker. The hot tub is outside, right up against the basement wall. The wire goes through he basement wall, directly into the back of the disconnect
which is about 5 feet from the hot tub. From there, the wire is in conduit going directly into the hot tub.
The pros will be along after work and I believe we have a clear enough picture they can help.
I then wired the hot tub directly to the main panel, skipping the gfi, and it runs perfectly fine.
#21
12-27-10, 02:47 PM
OK you have an unfused disconnect with GFCI protection.. In other words it is not a breaker and the GFCI is what is tripping. Your problem is current leakage somewhere. You may have an equipment problem rather than a wiring problem.
#22
12-27-10, 03:32 PM
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: USA
Posts: 22
Received 0 Votes
on
0 Posts
I wouldnt think that it would be an something with the hot tub, because like i said, whenever i disconnected the hot tub completely from the gfci it still tripped when i turned the power on to it
#23
12-27-10, 05:35 PM
It looks like the GFCI breaker is wired correctly, so it should not trip with the tub conductors disconnected. At this point I would suspect a faulty GFCI breaker. Take it back to the supplier and swap it for a good one. Sometimes they are bad right out of the box.
The #8 cable may still be too small depending on the electrical requirements of the tub though. I would not have run it with less than #6, but if manufacturer's load is spec'd lower it could be okay.
The #8 cable may still be too small depending on the electrical requirements of the tub though. I would not have run it with less than #6, but if manufacturer's load is spec'd lower it could be okay.
#24
12-27-10, 06:30 PM
Originally Posted by Sjones1088
Yeah the electrician said he hadnt seen any like that either, he said the two hots usually arent that close to eachother and they usually arent that close to the neutral bar. I bout that at home depot, it came as a kit with the 50 amp gfi breaker inside, it said it was for hot tubs...
#25
12-27-10, 07:26 PM
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: USA
Posts: 22
Received 0 Votes
on
0 Posts
Yes the disconnect is from midwest with a GE 50 amp breaker. And i have already gotten a new breaker and swapped it out and it did the exact same thing! I even got the exact same GE 50 amp gfi breaker.
#26
12-28-10, 01:47 AM
Member
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: NE Wis / Paris France{ In France for now }
Posts: 4,807
Received 0 Votes
on
0 Posts
Did that electrician try a quick test to rule out the breaker issue by disconnect the red and black conductor( to the spa ) and turn on the breaker ?
If that tripped then you have wiring issue between the main panel and spa panel but if stay on then you will have to do little more trouble shooting most common curpits I useally see
• Motour connections or current leakage from motour winding to the frame.
• Electrique water heater when the element go bad it will show up.
• Not very often but it do show up is the transfomer.
so that one of few items and I really recomed that the Electrician to help you on this matter there is not much room for error or guessing game.
The last time I have deal with it I just grab my megger and find it pretty quick. { it was a motour going bad }
I hope that the Electrician did replace that short peice from spa panel to the hot tub with proper conductor the NM cable in flexiable conduit is NOT allowed per NEC code especaially with hot tubs..
Merci.
Marc
If that tripped then you have wiring issue between the main panel and spa panel but if stay on then you will have to do little more trouble shooting most common curpits I useally see
• Motour connections or current leakage from motour winding to the frame.
• Electrique water heater when the element go bad it will show up.
• Not very often but it do show up is the transfomer.
so that one of few items and I really recomed that the Electrician to help you on this matter there is not much room for error or guessing game.
The last time I have deal with it I just grab my megger and find it pretty quick. { it was a motour going bad }
I hope that the Electrician did replace that short peice from spa panel to the hot tub with proper conductor the NM cable in flexiable conduit is NOT allowed per NEC code especaially with hot tubs..
Merci.
Marc
#27
12-28-10, 06:39 PM
In post #2 he stated that the tub was completely disconnected from the GFI breaker and the GFI breaker continued to trip.
POST # 2 -
I am suspicious of the neutral bar in the disconnect panel. Are you sure it is isolated from the panel box? Try disconnecting the neutral conductors from the neutral bar and check the bar with a meter for continuity to the panel box. I am also suspicious of the lugs on the GFI breaker (can't see them clearly from picture). Inspect them carefully to make sure the conductors are in the correct lugs. If these check out ok, start looking at the circuit from the main panel to the disconnect panel. It's rare to find bad romex, but it does happen. You'll eventually find the problem and I'm sure it will be something simple. Meanwhile, what Marc mentioned is right, you shouldn't have NM cable in conduit from disconnect to the hot tub, but that is not the problem with the GFI tripping.
POST # 2 -
Sorry, whenever i said i disconnected the neutral and the two hots from he gfi and it still tripped, i am talking about the neutral and the two hots that are going from he gfi to the hot tub. So i completely disconnected the hot tub and the gfi still tripped. Just wanted to make myself a little more clear!
#28
12-29-10, 12:35 AM
Member
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: NE Wis / Paris France{ In France for now }
Posts: 4,807
Received 0 Votes
on
0 Posts
Joe.,
I am thinking the same thing as well with netual busbar I know majtory of them are isolated but not always the case.
I did see that you did change the GFCI breaker as well and still trip so you will have to check the wiring carefully.
Ask that electrician if he have megger tester to verify the insluating is good. That what I will do in first place to rule it out.
Merci.
Marc
I am thinking the same thing as well with netual busbar I know majtory of them are isolated but not always the case.
I did see that you did change the GFCI breaker as well and still trip so you will have to check the wiring carefully.
Ask that electrician if he have megger tester to verify the insluating is good. That what I will do in first place to rule it out.
Merci.
Marc
#29
12-29-10, 12:30 PM
Member
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: usa
Posts: 243
Received 0 Votes
on
0 Posts
I was told that on those types of boxes that the neutral had to be isolated, otherwise you would get this sort of thing. Not to confuse things further...but the panel in the house...is it the main panel or a panel being feed by another panel (sub feed). My bet is a neutral problem.
#30
12-30-10, 08:35 AM
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: USA
Posts: 22
Received 0 Votes
on
0 Posts
The panel in the house is the main panel, not a subpanel. The electrician is coming back out tomorrow to see if he can figure it out, so hopefully we can get this thing resolved!
