Wiring an outlet for my camper.

Reply

  #1  
Old 02-02-11, 10:21 PM
A
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: usa
Posts: 18
Received 0 Votes on 0 Posts
Wiring an outlet for my camper.

I have a 1974 silver streak (electric water heater, 2 air conditioners) I'm trying to hook up to my new yard pole (meter and 100 amp breaker) The service panel for the camper was previously wired with 3 wires (2 hot, 1 neutral) It has one 30 amp breaker and one 20 amp breaker (they share the neutral, the ground and neutral are not bonded)

I have electric coming in soon, and I dont think they will accept me just direct wiring into the 100 amp breaker, that would just be to easy! I was told by the electric company engineer , I need to install a weatherproof GFCI outlet just below the 100 amp panel.

I have basic wiring down, but am a bit stumped here. I can see doing 2 - 30 amp plugs/outlets, or one 50 amp. Do they make 50 amp gfci outlets?

Please help!
 
Sponsored Links
  #2  
Old 02-02-11, 10:32 PM
ray2047's Avatar
Member
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: USA
Posts: 33,597
Received 13 Votes on 11 Posts
What is the rating of the subpanel in the trailer? Does the trailer have an inlet connected to the subpanel? If so what is the amp rating of the inlet?
 
  #3  
Old 02-03-11, 06:31 AM
A
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: usa
Posts: 18
Received 0 Votes on 0 Posts
I'n not sure of the subpanel rating, but I'll check today and get back on here tonight. The "inlet" is 3 wires (2 hot, 1 neutral size #4) I need to figure out what kind of plug to connect to this along with the outlet.

Thanks
 
  #4  
Old 02-03-11, 08:58 AM
ray2047's Avatar
Member
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: USA
Posts: 33,597
Received 13 Votes on 11 Posts
The "inlet" is 3 wires (2 hot, 1 neutral size #4)
For 120/240v wiring under current code you will need to change the inlet to four wires. You will also need to change the supply to the subpanel to four wires. If the subpanel does not have a separate ground bar you will need to add one. If the neutral bar is bonded you will need remove the bonding screw or strap.

Use a NEMA 14-60 receptacle at the pole fed by a 60a GFCI breaker and a NEMA 14-60 inlet at the trailer. This arrangement might not be compatible with RV parks and you might need to use an adapter for them. You would need to use 6-4 SOW cable for your cord.

Please note you can probably do this without a GFCI. It would be beter to use twist lock receptacle and inlet. A NEMA L14-60
 

Last edited by ray2047; 02-03-11 at 02:21 PM.
  #5  
Old 02-04-11, 10:16 AM
A
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: usa
Posts: 18
Received 0 Votes on 0 Posts
Hard wiring my camper into a 50 amp gfi breaker

I have a 100 amp service, which consists of only the meter and the 100 amp breaker.

The sub panel on the camper has one 30 amp breaker and one 20 amp breaker. There is no main shut off breaker. There are 3 wires exiting the sub panel (2 hots, and a shared neutral)

My plan is to install an outdoor 50 amp gfci double pole breaker under the 100 amp breaker on the yard pole. I will add an extra wire from sub panel to breaker for a dedicated ground. (the sub panel is not bonded) I will simply then hard wire the 4 wires from the sub panel to the 50 amp gfci breaker.

Does this sound right? Any insight would be much appreciated.

Thanks
Larry
 
  #6  
Old 02-04-11, 10:26 AM
ray2047's Avatar
Member
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: USA
Posts: 33,597
Received 13 Votes on 11 Posts
I merged your threads since they are basically the same. Also your duplicate thread in Campers was deleted. All your posts are really the same so no need for multiple threads.

Your plan sounds fine so long as you add a ground bar to the subpanel and Isolate the neutral.

You can either use #6 THWN in conduit or 6-3 UF sleeving it with conduit where exposed. No GFCI is needed at the main panel.
 
  #7  
Old 02-04-11, 10:34 AM
A
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: usa
Posts: 18
Received 0 Votes on 0 Posts
Ok sorry I'm not familiar with forum etiquette.

So I dont need the GFCI at the main panel, but I assume I do need a 50 amp breaker, or can i direct wire to the 100 amp main?

Thanks Ray
 
  #8  
Old 02-04-11, 10:42 AM
ray2047's Avatar
Member
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: USA
Posts: 33,597
Received 13 Votes on 11 Posts
Originally Posted by AKFISH42 View Post
Ok sorry I'm not familiar with forum etiquette.

So I dont need the GFCI at the main panel, but I assume I do need a 50 amp breaker, or can i direct wire to the 100 amp main?

Thanks Ray
Assuming your subpanel is rated 60a, yes. There should be a sticker inside it. If you don't see an amp rating post make and model number and one of the pros can probably identify it.

You can not direct wire from the 100 amp breaker. There shouldn't even be a way to connect to it unless you have main lugs.
 
  #9  
Old 02-04-11, 11:39 AM
A
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: usa
Posts: 18
Received 0 Votes on 0 Posts
Ok I think we have some signals crossed here.

This is a new service.

I have a yard pole with the meter and 100 amp main box that's it, so I have to connect something to this. I was thinking a small outdoor panel with a 50 amp breaker?

Then run the 4 wires from the sub panel on the camper to that. The sub panel on the camper has only a 30 amp breaker and a 20 amp breaker, there are no other slots in this panel, i believe it is rated 60 amps.

The pole with meter and 100 amp service panel attached (one main breaker) then the camper with sub panel is the entire electrical system on this property.

So meter to 100 amp panel(directly below meter) to 50 amp breaker(mounted directly below and wired into the 100 amp box on the meter pole, in a weatherproof box) to camper sub panel with 4 wires in conduit (10 feet away from pole).

Thanks for your patience.
 
  #10  
Old 02-04-11, 11:48 AM
ray2047's Avatar
Member
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: USA
Posts: 33,597
Received 13 Votes on 11 Posts
The pole with meter and 100 amp service panel attached (one main breaker) then the camper with sub panel is the entire electrical system on this property.
Are you saying there is no room in this panel for additional breakers? A 100 amp panel usually has room for several breakers.

Has the PoCO hooked up power yet?
 
  #11  
Old 02-04-11, 12:05 PM
A
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: usa
Posts: 18
Received 0 Votes on 0 Posts
The 100 amp panel below the meter is the main disconnect, there is no room for additional breakers.

Also the sub panel on the camper has no room for additional breakers.

Power is on the way, I have the pole in with just meter and 100 amp main disconnect.
 
  #12  
Old 02-04-11, 12:36 PM
ray2047's Avatar
Member
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: USA
Posts: 33,597
Received 13 Votes on 11 Posts
The 100 amp panel below the meter is the main disconnect, there is no room for additional breakers.
Then you need to change it out to one that will take additional breakers.

Or is the meter part of the disconnect? If so I would suggest a separate meter socket and panel. That's about all they use around here. Not familiar with combined meter and disconnect if that is what you have..
 
  #13  
Old 02-04-11, 12:53 PM
A
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: usa
Posts: 18
Received 0 Votes on 0 Posts
I cannot just take back the 100 amp main disconnect as I bought the entire Pole, meter, disconnect, conduit, weather head, and ground rod as a discounted package. I would have to pull the entire pole out of the ground.

I was told by the PoCo(Entergy) engineer that all I needed to do was to install a "temporary" GFCI outlet in a weatherproof box below the main disconnect. So there must be someway to accomplish this?

Can I add a weatherproof box containing a 50 amp double pole breaker to hook up my camper?

Does it need to be GFCI?

Once again thanks for your patience.
 
  #14  
Old 02-04-11, 12:58 PM
A
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: usa
Posts: 18
Received 0 Votes on 0 Posts
Oh, the meter and panel are not one unit, so it would be possible to change out the main disconnect box, I'm just worried that if i change it in any way they will not hook up the electric.

As I was told by the engineer, if I don't change anything on the premade pole meter assembly then they would hook me up, and I could add anything I wanted after I was hooked up to power.
 
  #15  
Old 02-04-11, 01:13 PM
ray2047's Avatar
Member
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: USA
Posts: 33,597
Received 13 Votes on 11 Posts
Sticking with what you have one way is to change out the 100 amp breaker for a 60 amp. If you do that it must be done before the power is hooked up to the meter.

I'd put in a 100 amp panel on the pole below the disconnect so you could add outside wiring directly from the panel on the pole. The panel you put on the pole below the 100 amp disconnect must be rated for 100 amps. You could use a main lug but a 100 amp panel kit with a main breaker will probably be cheaper. You would connect the two panels on the pole with conduit and use four #3 THWN conductors.

As stated earlier your subpanel in the trailer must be rated for 60 amps. So long as your hard wiring to a subpanel no GFCI is needed. The PoCo engineer seems to be giving you instructions for a temporary power pole for construction site use not a permanent trailer.
 
  #16  
Old 02-04-11, 01:24 PM
ray2047's Avatar
Member
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: USA
Posts: 33,597
Received 13 Votes on 11 Posts
Post deleted. Advice revised due to new info from OP.
 

Last edited by ray2047; 02-04-11 at 01:40 PM.
  #17  
Old 02-04-11, 01:24 PM
A
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: usa
Posts: 18
Received 0 Votes on 0 Posts
Right, this is basically for an extended "temporary" install. Maybe 2-3 years. Eventually I will finish a small house on site and remove the camper.

So Install a 100 amp panel below the 100 amp disconnect, then put a 50 amp breaker into this to connect the camper?

Thanks Ray
 
  #18  
Old 02-04-11, 01:32 PM
ray2047's Avatar
Member
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: USA
Posts: 33,597
Received 13 Votes on 11 Posts
So Install a 100 amp panel below the 100 amp disconnect, then put a 50 amp breaker into this to connect the camper?
Yes. Now if you add 120v receptacles to that panel for construction while building the house they will need to be GFCI.

Please ignore my post #16. You didn't mention you were building a house. Leave the main disconnect.
 
  #19  
Old 02-04-11, 01:45 PM
A
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: usa
Posts: 18
Received 0 Votes on 0 Posts
OK! this will work out perfectly.

HD has a 100 amp outdoor main lug for $30. I will also be able to install the 120 GFCI for building with this set up and potentially run my future aerobic septic until the house is finished.

Thank you very much Ray.
 
  #20  
Old 02-04-11, 01:54 PM
I
Forum Topic Moderator
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Near Lansing, Michigan
Posts: 10,944
Received 42 Votes on 40 Posts
Is the package kit they sold you a prefab "temporary power panel"? It might say something like compliant with NEC 590. For example something like this:

 
  #21  
Old 02-04-11, 02:02 PM
A
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: usa
Posts: 18
Received 0 Votes on 0 Posts
No,

Its an18' Treated pole, with weather head, conduit, meter, 100 amp main disconnect, and ground rod.
 
  #22  
Old 02-04-11, 02:06 PM
ray2047's Avatar
Member
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: USA
Posts: 33,597
Received 13 Votes on 11 Posts
That's fine. That is what I thought you had. I ask Ben to check my replies and he wanted to make sure what is in the pictures isn't what you have.
 
  #23  
Old 02-04-11, 02:16 PM
A
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: usa
Posts: 18
Received 0 Votes on 0 Posts
OK, Great!

Thank you and doityourself.com for the help solving this puzzle!
 
  #24  
Old 02-04-11, 06:42 PM
A
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: usa
Posts: 18
Received 0 Votes on 0 Posts
OK, just one more question on this subject. In the new 100 amp panel, I assume I should isolate the neutral and ground? If so it looks like I will have to add a ground bar to the panel.

Thanks
 
  #25  
Old 02-04-11, 07:28 PM
CasualJoe's Avatar
Member
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: United States
Posts: 10,352
Received 45 Votes on 36 Posts
Originally Posted by AKFISH42 View Post
OK, just one more question on this subject. In the new 100 amp panel, I assume I should isolate the neutral and ground? If so it looks like I will have to add a ground bar to the panel.

Thanks
I would say yes to that question because your new 100 amp MLO panel is now a subpanel fed from the 100 amp main disconnect. Some MLO panels come with a ground bar and some don't. If yours doesn't, yes, you'll have to add one.
 
  #26  
Old 02-05-11, 12:58 AM
F
Member
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: NE Wis / Paris France{ In France for now }
Posts: 4,808
Received 0 Votes on 0 Posts
Originally Posted by AKFISH42 View Post
Right, this is basically for an extended "temporary" install. Maybe 2-3 years. Eventually I will finish a small house on site and remove the camper.

So Install a 100 amp panel below the 100 amp disconnect, then put a 50 amp breaker into this to connect the camper?

Thanks Ray

Yeah it can be done however you have to becarefull with some POCO are picky with " tempory " power meter set up but as you describing that is pretty much permament deal with the post which I know they will do that and it will useally required a 100 amp main breaker that is the smallest they will allow on permaent useage on resdentail side and from there you can use the proper breaker size to protect your camper or mobile home one of the two.

Merci.
Marc
 
Reply

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Thread Tools
Search this Thread
 
Ask a Question
Question Title:
Description:
Your question will be posted in: