Celia10: Pool Bonding

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  #1  
Old 02-12-11, 08:19 AM
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Celia10: Pool Bonding

Hello! This is my first post here. We have a Doughboy 18 x 24 that we had installed in 1998. Our pump is dying, so we just bought a new Hayward pump, thinking it would be an easy case of out with the old and in with the new. We had never heard of bonding until we opened the box and read the installation booklet. We have since heard (reading online and talking with our pool supply place) everything from: 1.We don't have to do anything; 2. drive a stake in the ground and connect the copper wire to it and to the lug on the pump, and 3. bond every piece of metal within five feet. We called the county inspector's office, which referred us to their website which has no info that we could find. They also suggested we try to "catch" an inspector in the office early in the morning -- we were hoping to put in the pump this weekend. Since our pool is already existing, and has been since long before the 2008 info I've been reading here, do we need to do this bonding? Can we just set the pump up the way the old one was?

It's our pool person that says that it's just an "extra ground" and we can do nothing, or drive a metal stake into the ground and attach that to the pump. Would that be legal?

We have a metal ladder that sits on a wooden deck at the pool top. We also have metal patio furniture on this deck. Where there isn't a deck, there are trellises in front of the pool wall that are supported by re-bar. There are metal tiki torches in the dirt in front of these trellises.

So, do we need to have an electrician/pool installer come and redo our pool installation, or do we just replace our pump?

Any help would be greatly appreciated! Thank you!
 
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Old 02-12-11, 11:08 AM
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Celia10 Welcome to the forums. I have started a thread for you. In the future please start a new thread when you have a question of your own.. Gets to confusing if there are multiple questions from different people in the same thread. You don't know whose answering what to whom.

The pros will be along soon to help you but it is a bit slow on the weekends sometimes so have patience.
 
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Old 02-12-11, 11:14 AM
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Thanks, Ray. I should know better -- I do participate in some other forums. I'll look forward to hearing what the pros have to say!
 
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Old 02-12-11, 11:30 AM
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How is this pump fed? Cord connected? Hard wired? Is there a ground in the feed?
 
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Old 02-12-11, 07:54 PM
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The current pump is cord-connected with a 24 ft. 3 prong cord to a GFCI outlet that was installed for that purpose, about 10 feet away from the pool. The pump sits next to the pool, obviously by the skimmer, under the deck (below a hatch).
 
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Old 02-12-11, 11:01 PM
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...So, this evening my husband talked with the installer who originally installed our pool, and still does the installations for our local pool shop. He is not familiar with bonding, so I'm thinking it must be something not done in our area? We're currently leaning toward having someone (him, probably) come and install it for us so that it's all done (whatever it entails) by a qualified pool installer. We would, of course, show him the installation instructions that came with the pump and the bonding lug on the pump so that he can take it from there.
 
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Old 02-13-11, 08:17 AM
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my husband talked with the installer who originally installed our pool, and still does the installations for our local pool shop. He is not familiar with bonding,
Which is a good reason not to use him. As a pool installer he should be.

so I'm thinking it must be something not done in our area?
It is a matter of safety that should be done everywhere. It prevents dangerous perhaps deadly voltage differences between the metal fixtures and the water. Wait for the pros.

Note National Electric Code generally states manufactures installation instructions must be followed. At the very least the metal pool ladder probably needs to be bonded to the pump. Was power to the receptacle supplied by buried cable or conduit with an insulated ground wire?
 
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Old 02-13-11, 08:28 AM
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I have to agree with Ray. Any pool installer that does not know about the importance of bonding does not have the required knowledge to install pool equipment. Also whoever told you to ground the motor to a ground rod does not know the reason ground rods are used or proper grounding and bonding requirements.

Is this an above ground or in ground pool? What is the maximum depth of the water?
 
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Old 02-13-11, 10:17 AM
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The receptacle is supplied by wire in a buried conduit from the main breaker box. It is attached to our pool deck -- all done by a licensed electrician in 1998 and inspected by the county at that time. It is a GFCI. While I can't see the wires themselves, it must include a ground, mustn't it? Can it be a GFCI without a ground? Would anything installed as recently as that not have a ground?

The pool is a 12x24 Doughboy (I previously mistyped 18x24) with a deep middle (dug into the ground about a foot down the center of the pool), so, yes, it would exceed 42 inches in depth.

The ladder has stainless steel handles and plastic steps. It sits in plastic boots attached to the wooden deck that surrounds 2/3 of the pool.

I'm hoping that the pros here can give us help in knowing what to bond and how to do it:

--whether just the ladder,
--that and one pool support,
--around the whole pool (does that mean it's bolted to each of the supports?)

Would we be safer replacing the ladder with an all plastic one?

This all started because we decided to replace our filter. In moving our old pump around, it started running noisily, like bushings or bearings are going. Right now, we're still using the old pump, but feel it's on it's last legs.

I'm curious about how the local pool people cannot know about this!

I really appreciate the help to date! Thank you!
 
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Old 02-13-11, 10:54 AM
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Here is a slightly older graphic to help you understand bonding.

Courtesy of Mike Holt.
 
  #11  
Old 02-13-11, 04:54 PM
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Some of the below may not apply to you because you don't have an in-ground pool but it gives you a general idea of bonding requirements. It is from the 2008 NEC.

680.26 Equipotential Bonding.
(A) Performance. The equipotential bonding required by
this section shall be installed to reduce voltage gradients in
the pool area.
(B) Bonded Parts. The parts specified in 680.26(B)(1)
through (B)(7) shall be bonded together using solid copper
conductors, insulated covered, or bare, not smaller than
8 AWG or with rigid metal conduit of brass or other identified
corrosion-resistant metal. Connections to bonded
parts shall be made in accordance with 250.8. An 8 AWG or
larger solid copper bonding conductor provided to reduce
voltage gradients in the pool area shall not be required to be
extended or attached to remote panelboards, service equipment,
or electrodes.
(1) Conductive Pool Shells. Bonding to conductive pool
shells shall be provided as specified in 680.26(B)(1)(a) or
(B)(1)(b). Poured concrete, pneumatically applied or
sprayed concrete, and concrete block with painted or plastered
coatings shall all be considered conductive materials
due to water permeability and porosity. Vinyl liners and
fiberglass composite shells shall be considered to be nonconductive
materials.
(a) Structural Reinforcing Steel. Unencapsulated structural
reinforcing steel shall be bonded together by steel tie
wires or the equivalent. Where structural reinforcing steel is
encapsulated in a nonconductive compound, a copper conductor
grid shall be installed in accordance with
680.26(B)(1)(b).
(b) Copper Conductor Grid. A copper conductor grid
shall be provided and shall comply with (b)(1) through
(b)(4).
(1) Be constructed of minimum 8 AWG bare solid copper
conductors bonded to each other at all points of crossing
(2) Conform to the contour of the pool and the pool deck
(3) Be arranged in a 300-mm (12-in.) by 300-mm (12-in.)
network of conductors in a uniformly spaced perpendicular
grid pattern with a tolerance of 100 mm (4 in.)
(4) Be secured within or under the pool no more than
150 mm (6 in.) from the outer contour of the pool shell
(2) Perimeter Surfaces. The perimeter surface shall extend
for 1 m (3 ft) horizontally beyond the inside walls of
the pool and shall include unpaved surfaces as well as
poured concrete and other types of paving. Bonding to perimeter
surfaces shall be provided as specified in
680.26(B)(2)(a) or (2)(b) and shall be attached to the pool
reinforcing steel or copper conductor grid at a minimum of
four (4) points uniformly spaced around the perimeter of
the pool. For nonconductive pool shells, bonding at four
points shall not be required.
(a) Structural Reinforcing Steel. Structural reinforcing
steel shall be bonded in accordance with 680.26(B)(1)(a).
(b) Alternate Means. Where structural reinforcing steel
is not available or is encapsulated in a nonconductive compound,
a copper conductor(s) shall be utilized where the
following requirements are met:
(1) At least one minimum 8 AWG bare solid copper conductor
shall be provided.
(2) The conductors shall follow the contour of the perimeter
surface.
(3) Only listed splices shall be permitted.
(4) The required conductor shall be 450 to 600 mm (18 to
24 in.) from the inside walls of the pool.
(5) The required conductor shall be secured within or under
the perimeter surface 100 mm to 150 mm (4 in. to
6 in.) below the subgrade.
(3) Metallic Components. All metallic parts of the pool
structure, including reinforcing metal not addressed in
680.26(B)(1)(a), shall be bonded. Where reinforcing steel is
encapsulated with a nonconductive compound, the reinforcing
steel shall not be required to be bonded.
(4) Underwater Lighting. All metal forming shells and
mounting brackets of no-niche luminaires shall be bonded.
Exception: Listed low-voltage lighting systems with nonmetallic
forming shells shall not require bonding.
(5) Metal Fittings. All metal fittings within or attached to
the pool structure shall be bonded. Isolated parts that are
not over 100 mm (4 in.) in any dimension and do not
penetrate into the pool structure more than 25 mm (1 in.)
shall not require bonding.
(6) Electrical Equipment. Metal parts of electrical equipment
associated with the pool water circulating system,
including pump motors and metal parts of equipment associated
with pool covers, including electric motors, shall be
bonded.
Exception: Metal parts of listed equipment incorporating
an approved system of double insulation shall not be
bonded.
(a) Double-Insulated Water Pump Motors. Where a
double-insulated water pump motor is installed under the
provisions of this rule, a solid 8 AWG copper conductor of
sufficient length to make a bonding connection to a replacement
motor shall be extended from the bonding grid to an
accessible point in the vicinity of the pool pump motor.
Where there is no connection between the swimming pool
bonding grid and the equipment grounding system for the
premises, this bonding conductor shall be connected to the
equipment grounding conductor of the motor circuit.
(b) Pool Water Heaters. For pool water heaters rated
at more than 50 amperes and having specific instructions
regarding bonding and grounding, only those parts designated
to be bonded shall be bonded and only those parts
designated to be grounded shall be grounded.
(7) Metal Wiring Methods and Equipment. Metalsheathed
cables and raceways, metal piping, and all fixed
metal parts shall be bonded.
Exception No. 1: Those separated from the pool by a permanent
barrier shall not be required to be bonded.
Exception No. 2: Those greater than 1.5 m (5 ft) horizontally
of the inside walls of the pool shall not be required to
be bonded.
Exception No. 3: Those greater than 3.7 m (12 ft) measured
vertically above the maximum water level of the pool,
or as measured vertically above any observation stands,
towers, or platforms, or any diving structures, shall not be
required to be bonded.

(C) Pool Water. An intentional bond of a minimum conductive
surface area of 5806 mm2 (9 in.2) shall be installed
in contact with the pool water. This bond shall be permitted
to consist of parts that are required to be bonded in.
 
  #12  
Old 02-14-11, 09:42 AM
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Latest update: My husband was able to talk to a County Inspector this morning. He said we need to bond the pump to the pool itself (at one of the supports) and that takes care of the requirements for an above ground pool. The other types of bonding are followed for in-ground pools. Thank you to everyone for your help with this. We will forward this information to the pool store guy and the installer to spread the word on bonding!
 
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Old 02-14-11, 09:45 AM
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Glad you got the information. Thanks for letting us know.
 
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Old 02-14-11, 12:18 PM
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I agree that sounds right for a retrofit pump on an above ground pool with plastic liner. If this was a new pool the requirement would be a lot more extensive including a ground ring and water bonding coupling.
 
  #15  
Old 02-15-11, 07:15 AM
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Originally Posted by ibpooks View Post
I agree that sounds right for a retrofit pump on an above ground pool with plastic liner. If this was a new pool the requirement would be a lot more extensive including a ground ring and water bonding coupling.
NEC quoted above had: "C) Pool Water. An intentional bond of a minimum conductive
surface area of 5806 mm2 (9 in.2) shall be installed
in contact with the pool water. This bond shall be permitted
to consist of parts that are required to be bonded in. "

So, why doesn't this situation require a water bond?
 
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Old 02-15-11, 10:34 AM
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Generally speaking, replacement of existing parts does not require full compliance with modern code. Since the homeowner asked the inspector and he didn't require it, I believe this installation is grandfathered.
 
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