Can 240V circuit become 120V?
#1
Member
Thread Starter
Can 240V circuit become 120V?
The living room in the older home I'm remodeling has no overhead lights installed; only a single switched outlet. It does, however, have a 240V ceil heat box installed. I'm no longer using the ceil heat, and I'm wondering if one of the hots can be removed from the bus and used as a neutral for an overhead fixture. This might not make a lick of sense but it sounded good in my head earlier today.
Thanks in advance.
Thanks in advance.
#2
This could be possible if the wiring method contained a grounding means. IMO repurposing a non-grounded circuit would not meet the intent of the code.
#3
Member
Thread Starter
Thanks. The home was built in the 60's and few places are grounded...thus far I have changed all switches and outlets, and removed almost all light fixtures and no grounds were installed. I believe the bathroom outlets were the exception.
Would that make any difference to this project?
Would that make any difference to this project?
#4
How did you go about changing out the receptacles? Did you run new wiring with grounding to them? If not, you circumvented the code as well, and corrective measures need to be done to bring it in compliance. As to the 240 volt circuit, did it have a neutral? If not, one of the hot leads can be moved from the breaker and placed on the neutral buss, but it will need to be marked with white tape on both ends to "change" its color. The other hot at the breaker will need to be placed on a single breaker, and the double you have now removed or saved for future use. What color are the wires in the ceiling box? Do you plan on switching it from a wall location? Gotta know about all the other changes you made so we can give better advice.
Mod Edit: NEC Code does no permit wies smaller then #4 to be remarked neutral AHJ may or may not allow.
Mod Edit: NEC Code does no permit wies smaller then #4 to be remarked neutral AHJ may or may not allow.
Last edited by ray2047; 02-14-11 at 09:02 AM. Reason: Code Note
#5
Member
Thread Starter
Good Lord! So all the switches and outlets (basically the whole house)...needs new wire run? I just popped out the horribly old switches/receptacles and put in the shiny new.
There is no ceiling box in the living room currently (I was just going to put a J-box in the attic to splice it with the old 240V circuit). And the 240V ceil heat box does not have a neutral...two reds only. Is it a serious violation if I go ahead and change the breaker? (I understand you can't really condone anyone breaking code here). And, would a single breaker just be put into place where the double pole was or is there some other method? Either way I'd like to know.
Thanks...
There is no ceiling box in the living room currently (I was just going to put a J-box in the attic to splice it with the old 240V circuit). And the 240V ceil heat box does not have a neutral...two reds only. Is it a serious violation if I go ahead and change the breaker? (I understand you can't really condone anyone breaking code here). And, would a single breaker just be put into place where the double pole was or is there some other method? Either way I'd like to know.
Thanks...
#6
And the 240V ceil heat box does not have a neutral...two reds only. Is it a serious violation if I go ahead and change the breaker?
So all the switches and outlets (basically the whole house)...needs new wire run? I just popped out the horribly old switches/receptacles and put in the shiny new.
#7
Member
Thread Starter
Well, project canceled.
Are the "receptacles with no ground" a special kind of outlet? Would it be easier/cheaper to just change the breakers to GFCI?
Are the "receptacles with no ground" a special kind of outlet? Would it be easier/cheaper to just change the breakers to GFCI?
#8
Are the "receptacles with no ground" a special kind of outlet?
Would it be easier/cheaper to just change the breakers to GFCI?
You wrote earlier the ceiling box had two red wires. Is this conduit?
#9
thanks for the catch, Ray. I wasn't sure what size was in the attic, and should have asked.
JFS321, to further the comments already made, if you are doing this for personnel protection, use the GFCI breaker, but if for convenience to be able to use 3 pronged receptacles, then, as Ray said, run the downline receptacles on the LOAD side of the GFCI, marking all downline receptacles "GFCI protected", and "no equipment ground" with the provided stickers.
With two reds only, you can't use them for a 120 volt circuit, unless it is a #4 or larger.
JFS321, to further the comments already made, if you are doing this for personnel protection, use the GFCI breaker, but if for convenience to be able to use 3 pronged receptacles, then, as Ray said, run the downline receptacles on the LOAD side of the GFCI, marking all downline receptacles "GFCI protected", and "no equipment ground" with the provided stickers.
With two reds only, you can't use them for a 120 volt circuit, unless it is a #4 or larger.
#10
Member
Thread Starter
Okay guys, thanks. I don't like the GFCI's because I rarely have luck getting them to fit in the J-box. Then again, I appreciate what they do.
Just for the sake of knowing...what do you mean larger than #4? All of the wiring in the house looks to be 12- or 14-2 which is why I'm confused.
Just for the sake of knowing...what do you mean larger than #4? All of the wiring in the house looks to be 12- or 14-2 which is why I'm confused.
#11
Just for the sake of knowing...what do you mean larger than #4? All of the wiring in the house looks to be 12- or 14-2 which is why I'm confused.
Does your wiring run in solid metal conduits, corrugated metal tube or flexible cable? Based on the age if it was cable it would probably have a silvery fish scale appearance with a tar-like coating. If you have a conduit system a lot of your troubles could be avoided.
#12
don't like the GFCI's because I rarely have luck getting them to fit in the J-box.
Just for the sake of knowing...what do you mean larger than #4? All of
#13
Member
Thread Starter
Okay, thanks. I was just surprised that the wire had to be that big to re-label it and thought I had it confused.
The cable sheathing is black, flexible, and mesh-looking.
I'll try a bigger box. Thanks again.
The cable sheathing is black, flexible, and mesh-looking.
I'll try a bigger box. Thanks again.
#15
Member
Thread Starter
Sorry for not being clear. It's definitely all copper wire...some used in the house is what I would just call regular 'romex' and then some is copper wire with that black fabric-looking sheath. I'm pretty sure no metal is underneath. And no conduit anywhere.
Is there an easy fix for grounding the overhead light fixtures? I can get around in the attic just fine but running new wire from the box doesn't excite me much.
Is there an easy fix for grounding the overhead light fixtures? I can get around in the attic just fine but running new wire from the box doesn't excite me much.
#16
Is there an easy fix for grounding the overhead light fixtures? I can get around in the attic just fine but running new wire from the box doesn't excite me much.