Installing outlets on my deck... a few questions

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  #1  
Old 02-19-11, 01:00 PM
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Installing outlets on my deck... a few questions

Hello,

I am going to be installing electrical outlets, 2 of them, on my deck. I have a few questions:

1) I know I need a GFCI for at least one of the outlets. Does it matter where in the line it gets installed? i.e. does it need to be the cloeset one to the breaker box?

2) What gague wire do I need to use, I think I need a 15 AWG wire rated for outside.

3) I'm going to run the line back to the fuse box, my assumption is I need to match the breaker with the wire. So if I use 15 AWG wire I need a 15 amp breaker. Is that correct?

If there is anything else I need to know, please let me know.

Thanks in advance.
Steve
 
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Old 02-19-11, 01:18 PM
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1) I know I need a GFCI for at least one of the outlets. Does it matter where in the line it gets installed? i.e. does it need to be the cloeset one to the breaker box?
It needs to be the first receptacle. Power goes to the line side and all remaining receptacles are daisy chained from the load side.

2) What gague wire do I need to use, I think I need a 15 AWG wire rated for outside.
If a 15 amp breaker you would use #14. If it is a 20 amp breaker #12. Preceding assumes distances of less then 150 feet. Generally you would use a 20a breaker and 12-2 UF. Note cable must be protected. Run under the deck etc. You can not for example staple it along a wall at heights lower then 6 feet. If exposed to sunlight it must be rated for sunlight. Conduit and individual THWN wires are a better way.

3) I'm going to run the line back to the fuse box, my assumption is I need to match the breaker with the wire. So if I use 15 AWG wire I need a 15 amp breaker. Is that correct?
See answer number 2. If it is a fuse box you would use fuses not breakers.

You may want to pick up a copy of Wiring Simplified before starting your project. It is available at Home Depot, Amazon and other places.
 
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Old 02-19-11, 01:47 PM
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Originally Posted by ray2047 View Post
It needs to be the first receptacle. Power goes to the line side and all remaining receptacles are daisy chained from the load side.

If a 15 amp breaker you would use #14. If it is a 20 amp breaker #12. Preceding assumes distances of less then 150 feet. Generally you would use a 20a breaker and 12-2 UF. Note cable must be protected. Run under the deck etc. You can not for example staple it along a wall at heights lower then 6 feet. If exposed to sunlight it must be rated for sunlight. Conduit and individual THWN wires are a better way.

See answer number 2. If it is a fuse box you would use fuses not breakers.

You may want to pick up a copy of Wiring Simplified before starting your project. It is available at Home Depot, Amazon and other places.
That makes sense, but when you say daisy chain you mean they are all just connected together. Daisy chain to me means it needs to make a run back to the breaker box after the last outlet. I'm thinking I can just end at the last outlet.

The run will be less than 150 feet, so it looks like a 15 amp breaker and #14 wire. I meant breaker box, not fuse box.

Thanks,
Steve
 
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Old 02-19-11, 01:51 PM
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Yes, daisy chain means A connected in parallel to B and B connected in parallel to C and so fourth.

A===B===C===D >
 

Last edited by ray2047; 02-19-11 at 06:03 PM.
  #5  
Old 02-19-11, 02:16 PM
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One last question...

Does THWN wire need to be enclosed in condit or can I just string it under my deck? I probably will enclose it anyway, but just wondering. I probably only have about 15" of condit per receptical with one bend. Should not be too bad.
 
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Old 02-19-11, 03:07 PM
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Yes individual conductors must be run in conduit.
 
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Old 02-19-11, 05:10 PM
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You would be better spending the extra money for12awg wire on a 20A breaker. just in case you have a party with food outside.
 
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Old 02-19-11, 06:13 PM
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You could also use UF cable under the deck and run a short piece of PVC conduit up from under the deck to the receptacle box. If the cable runs perpendicular to the joists you would probably need a running board (1x4 or 2x4) fastened across the bottom of the joists to fasten the cable to.

If your panel is out side you could easily run the cable underground to the deck. Just come from the bottom of the panel and protect with conduit to below ground level. If you use a GFCI breaker instead of a GFCI receptacle you only need to bury it 12".
 
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Old 02-19-11, 06:17 PM
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Originally Posted by Justin Smith View Post
You would be better spending the extra money for12awg wire on a 20A breaker. just in case you have a party with food outside.
Yes, and I think code requires it.
 
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Old 02-23-11, 04:49 PM
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Thanks for all the suggestions.

I think I am going to run a short piece of conduit thru the deck to the underside. From there, just string (and secure) the wire along a joist up to the other outlet, from there go thru the ledger board into the house and back to the breaker.

Going to run 12awg wire through out with a 20A breaker. Assuming I need outlets rated @ 20A too?

I'm assuming I will need to use wire that is rated for outdoor use (is this the UF rating or THWN?)

Let me know if something looks amis here.

Thanks
 

Last edited by Steve123; 02-23-11 at 05:12 PM.
  #11  
Old 02-23-11, 04:59 PM
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You will need to install bell end bushings where the uf enters the pvc to prevent chaffing.
 
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Old 02-23-11, 05:20 PM
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Both UF and THWN can be used in wet areas. THWN would require a complete conduit system between boxes and the panel.

If there is more than one place to plug into you can use 15 amp receptacles. A standard duplex receptacle counts as two places.
 
  #13  
Old 02-23-11, 05:24 PM
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The receptacles also need to be listed weather resistant, with bubble covers. Avoid cheap receptacles, and 20A ones are strongly reccomended. (Think bounce house)

Moderator Addendum: There is no reason to use 20 amp receptacles. 15 amp receptacles are fine , they are 20a pass through, but it is a good idea not to use the cheapest ones. (Preceding is US code only.)
 

Last edited by ray2047; 02-23-11 at 10:06 PM.
  #14  
Old 02-23-11, 07:02 PM
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There's no such thing as a 'weather resistant' or 'outdoor rated' receptacle. You use a regular receptacle in an outdoor rated box with an "in use" (bubble) cover.

You will also be very hard pressed to find any type of household appliance or toy that has an actual 5-20P plug on it that requires the 20A T-slot receptacle. In reality the T-slot receptacle is just a commercial/Canadian code formality.
 
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Old 02-23-11, 08:05 PM
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They do now make WR (weather resistant) receptacles for use inside bubble covers in wet areas, but enforcement is spotty in my experience. Your locality may or may not require type WR receptacles.
 
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Old 02-23-11, 08:10 PM
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Links/part numbers? I've never seen or heard of one. Google only turns up covers.
 
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Old 02-23-11, 08:26 PM
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Old 02-24-11, 02:46 PM
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I do not like cooper wiring devices

some motor-opreated appliances do have 5-20 plugs, although they are rare.
 
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Old 02-24-11, 03:12 PM
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Interesting.. I knew about the tamper resistant ones (as the recipient of a jolt from inserting a screwdriver into the hot slot when I was 4, I can see the safety benefit of these! ), and I've seen them, but I've never seen anything with a WR label at the big boxes. Could have to do with the fact that most of rural KS is still on 2005 or earlier (my town is still on 2002). I don't understand the "benefit" of them though. It looks like they have slot shutters, but I don't see how they provide any additional protection over an in-use cover which doesn't allow moisture to get to it in the first place.
 
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Old 02-24-11, 03:41 PM
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I see no benefit of WR receptacles either, and they are just a pita for me. I could get into a tr with a single screwderiver. Outside receptacles are not required to be tr, as the code only states in dwelling units, and outside is not in.
 
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Old 02-24-11, 03:45 PM
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I also do not see the value of WR over a simple bubble cover. They are made of "enhanced nylon and corrosion resistant metal"? To me that means the same nylon and brass that all receptacles are made with.
 
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Old 02-24-11, 04:46 PM
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The yoke is chrome plated. Other than that, same.
 
  #23  
Old 03-29-11, 09:22 AM
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Getting ready to start this project now that the weather is nice.

Here is what I am going to do, please check this and let me know if it looks ok:
1) Run 12 AWG UF wire, only enclosed in conduit from the top of the deck, under the deck I will secure the wire with staples

2) Use 1 20 Amp GFCI (closest to the breaker box), 1 20 AMP outlet (on the end of the line)

3) Use outdoor rated boxes to house the outlets

4) Install a 20A breaker in the box (is this sized right?)

Thanks in advance.

Steve
 
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Old 03-29-11, 01:12 PM
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You still nneed the bell end bushings.
 
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Old 03-29-11, 01:31 PM
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Will I need the bell end bushings even if I use PVC conduit.

I want to verify I have the right size breaker, it seems logical to use a 20A breaker on a 12 AWG line... just checking.

Thanks
 
  #26  
Old 03-29-11, 05:50 PM
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12ga wire and 20A breaker. You're spot on.

Also, you can use 15A receptacles throughout. 15A receptacles are rated for 20A passthrough and code figures that in a residential setting, you're likely not going to plug any 20A appliances in. You may of course use 20A receptacles if you desire.
 
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Old 03-29-11, 06:08 PM
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Will I need the bell end bushings even if I use PVC conduit.
No, not necessary to use bushings on PVC conduit, but some do. Zorfdt is right, you're ready to go, but the weather isn't nice yet. Rain and possibly a touch of snow tonight (sprinkling rain now), check with Dave Murray before you start.
 
  #28  
Old 03-30-11, 06:39 PM
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Originally Posted by Steve123 View Post
...
1) Run 12 AWG UF wire, only enclosed in conduit from the top of the deck, under the deck I will secure the wire with staples
...
If the UF is under the joists of the deck, will it need a running board?

Rich
 
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Old 03-30-11, 07:37 PM
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A running board or thru drilled holes would work.
 
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