Wiring inside panel

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  #1  
Old 03-09-11, 10:07 PM
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Wiring inside panel

Inside a subpanel, where the ground and neutral are to be separate, am I allowed to split the ground to both sides of the panel to allow for a cleaner install? I was going to terminate the ground after passing through a grounding bushing to one side of the panel's ground block, but I wanted to avoid having wiring running across the panel if possible. What could I use to do this? Will two 8ga. wires be too large to fit under the 1 1/4" grounding bushing's lay in lug? The incoming connector is a liquidtite connector. Any other ideas? Am I approaching this incorrectly?
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Old 03-09-11, 10:20 PM
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Just a quick check: Do you have a 4 wire feed? Is the ground bar bonded to the panel? Is the neutral bar isolated? The ground wires must go only to the ground bar. The neutrals must only go to the neutral bars. Neatness is good but there is no need to over do it.

I'm not sure what you mean by:
I wanted to avoid having wiring running across the panel if possible. What could I use to do this? Will two 8ga. wires be too large to fit under the 1 1/4" grounding bushing's lay in lug?
Can you try explaining it differently?

What is this subpanel for? Is it for a pool? What does the Liquid-tite connect to?
 
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Old 03-10-11, 06:27 AM
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Are you using the liquidtight to provide the grounding means to the panel? I don't understand why you have a ground bushing.
 
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Old 03-10-11, 11:30 AM
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Like the other guys, I'm not sure the LT bonding bushing is necessary (always would be optional though). You can have multiple ground bars if you want to. As long as they are secured to the tub using tapped machine screws you do not need to bond them with a copper wire. You can do so if you wish, a #8 copper is a suitable ground for up to 100A panel. You can use one long ground wire and loop it through all the connectors, bus bars, bonder lugs, etc you want it to bond in one shot.
 
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Old 03-10-11, 06:30 PM
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Sorry Ray, I often don't make sense at 1AM This is for a sub panel for shop in garage of existing home so no additional grounding system needed and yes there will be 4 wire coming over, 2 hot, neutral and ground. No bonding screw so a term. block on either side of the panel will be isolated for ground only. My concern was keeping the panel neat and avoiding having wires crossing over the sides if possible. My question was how to split the ground wire so that when it enters the panel I can have two conductors, one for each side. A little anal, but later this panel may fill up and I would like to have the flexibility from the start by keeping everything neat. The grounding bushing was all I could think of that might do the trick.

Pcboss, see above to clarify, the liquidtite is nonmetallic and only using as conduit.

Ben! I didn't even think of that (smacks self)! Run my #8 ground in, terminate on left side, run a short #8 to a ring terminal and ground box then on right side repeat and electrically speaking my box, and the bars on each side will be grounded.
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Last edited by chopnhack; 03-10-11 at 06:52 PM.
  #6  
Old 03-10-11, 06:41 PM
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As long as the ground bars are firmly attached to the panel box with threaded screws, it isn't necessary to land a feeder ground conductor in each ground bar. Land the feeder ground conductor in the closest ground bar to ground the panel can and the second ground bar is then also properly grounded through the can.
 
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Old 03-10-11, 06:51 PM
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Its a Square D panel, when I looked at it the ground bars where installed on plastic risers and I didn't see where it was bonded to the panel. There was one hole for the bonding screw that would tie the neutral bars and ground bars as well as ground the can in one shot but I didn't see how each bar were connected it. I can ohm it and see. Otherwise I will use a short section with ring terminals and tie the can in.
 
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Old 03-10-11, 07:44 PM
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Its a Square D panel, when I looked at it the ground bars where installed on plastic risers and I didn't see where it was bonded to the panel.
That is the neutral bar not the ground bar. You do not connect any ground wires to it including the ground wire from the main panel. You do not use the bonding screw.

If you have two neutral bars you can use one for a ground bar by installing the bonding screw. Usually though you have only one neutral bar and must buy ground bars and add them to the panel.
 
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Old 03-10-11, 07:51 PM
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The auxillary ground buss will mount to the small raised bumps on the back of the enclosure. Typically there are three locations that can be used. There is no need to jumper them together.
 
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Old 03-10-11, 07:57 PM
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Grrr... i thought the two outer buses were ground buses, I didnt realize they were connected... I must be slipping..
 
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Old 03-10-11, 08:08 PM
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I personally would not rely solely on the can for ground continuity.
 
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Old 03-10-11, 09:23 PM
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Originally Posted by Justin Smith View Post
I personally would not rely solely on the can for ground continuity.
But millions of people do and it is approved by the UL. Can you site a single documented instance of failure?
 
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Old 03-11-11, 05:07 AM
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Originally Posted by Justin Smith View Post
I personally would not rely solely on the can for ground continuity.
You do every time you bond the can when installing a service.
 
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Old 03-11-11, 05:30 AM
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Originally Posted by Justin Smith View Post
I personally would not rely solely on the can for ground continuity.

As Ray and Scott said it is done everyday and is UL listed for this use.


You would probably be surprised to find out the ampacity of the bond screw in the panel. It is lower than you think.
 
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Old 03-11-11, 01:27 PM
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I just would rather use a scrap of 8awg wire between the busses, although these things are listed to use the can, for extra security. Weird things have happend to me.
 
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Old 03-11-11, 03:44 PM
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Weird things have happend to me.
We all know that but this forum tries to advise people based on the real world.
 
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