Verizon Phone Junction Box Project

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  #1  
Old 03-30-11, 03:30 PM
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Verizon Phone Junction Box Project

Have a working phone line and would want to add another jack for an additional phone number. Verizon has instructed me that a consumer can do it but offers no specifics on connecting to a junction box.

Looking for an "informed" reply from someone who has experience in connectivity. The link to: Phone Junction Box - Windows Live

Much thanks for your interest.

Phil Pense
 
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  #2  
Old 03-30-11, 04:18 PM
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Some phone lines still use the standard red/green and yellow/black pairs. Newer installations will use multiple pair cat5 type cable. It takes two wires to constitute a "line". You most likely have red/green for the line in your house, now. For the second line, you will need to activate the yellow/black pair. Wherever you plan on having this second line, remove the red/green wires and attach the yellow/black wires to the screws. Your new location will only ring and allow conversations on line number 2.
You'll need to go to the interface on the outside of the house and make sure the red/green and yellow/black are connected to the proper nuts. Most likely they were done that way when the phone service was installed, but sometimes not. Let us know 1) what type cable you have and 2) whether or not the interface is connected. Do you have a hardwire phone available in the house? You'll need that for testing the lines.
 
  #3  
Old 03-30-11, 04:20 PM
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Verizon will set up the new number at the NID or network interface device. This is typically a gray box on the outside of the house.

You would run a new cable to the NID. There should be 4 posts in the NID. Two will be for each number.
 
  #4  
Old 03-30-11, 04:45 PM
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Greetings All:

Truly appreciative of your timely reply. Please know that I included a link to an image of what I have: The URL is:

100_1449.JPG - Windows Live This is where verizon service techs check when visiting for reported issues.

I am in no hurry. It is my hope that you have at least seen an interface like what I have and perhaps guide me through the uploaded image. Hope to hear from you when convenient to you

Phil Pense
 
  #5  
Old 03-30-11, 06:08 PM
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Looks like a punch block in your house not a NID Here are two common types of newer NIDs. Around here they are always outside where the phone drop or lateral is.

 
  #6  
Old 03-30-11, 06:40 PM
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The photos you posted were of an internal distribution punch down block. Basically it's a fancy way of connecting all the greens together and all the reds together. One of those 6 (?) cables will go to the outside NID box that Ray posted.

Make sure the yellow and black are connected to the second set of terminals in the NID. Next, connect all the yellows together and all the blacks together at the punch down block location. It would probably be easiest just to strip them and use a wire nut. Without a punch down tool, it's difficult to make a good connection.

Next, check each phone jack around the house. If you want to use a 2-line phone anywhere, ensure all 4 wires are connected to the jack. If you just want to use a 1-line phone on your first line, connect green and red. If you want to use a 1-line phone on your second line, connect yellow and black.

It shouldn't be too difficult!
 
  #7  
Old 03-30-11, 09:29 PM
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1. If you are planning to run your second line on yellow/black within the same jacket with red/green carrying the first line, you may experience crosstalk. The wire you have is called "quad" and is not twisted, so there will be some inductance between the two pairs. This can cause problems with data and may be noticeable with voice calls.

2. You have two blocks in the photos. The grey one on the right is a 42A block. This is typical Western Electric stuff used from the 1940s through the 1980s. There is probably an old line leading from the 42A to a carbon or gas tube protector in the basement, or outside the house, or if you're lucky a modern NID on the outside of the house. If you do not have a NID you should check with your public service commission to see if the phone company is required to add one for free. In Wisconsin the LEC is required to add a NID for any current customer on request without charge in owner-occupied single-family homes that do not already have a NID.

3. The beige block on the left is a 66B split block equivalent to ... Hubbell 66B Punch Down Block - 6 Pair/Split 3x with Cover - Miscellaneous - Hubbell HPW66B36 - HubbellPremiseWiring.com.

You can tell it is split because of the way the openings on the clips face. You will see that in each row, the three left clips "face" the center and likewise on the right the clips face the center as well. This indicates that on the backplane, the left three clips are bridged to each other, and the right three clips are bridged to each other, but there is no electrical connection between the left-facing and right-facing.

So anyway, your 66B block can handle up to six separate lines. With six separate lines you could connect two station cables to each line. Since you have only two lines you could do a little bit of rewiring to put line 1 on the left and line 2 on the right. You would daisy chain between the pairs of outside contacts on the left (i.e. Column 1). Then you would daisy chain between the pairs of outside contacts on the right (i.e. Column 6). Then you connect your station cables to the inside rows, i.e. for Line 1, columns 2 & 3, and for Line 2, columns 5 & 4. You always connect from the outside working in so you are not punching over any other wires. Using this method you can connect six two-line station cables to the block, or twelve single-line station cables.

Punching ... you really should get a 66 punchdown tool for this. You can get cheap ones for maybe $10-15 or expensive impact ones for a hundred bucks - or much less.

Finally, if you are doing any DSL or data stuff with this, quad will generally work but modern Cat 3 and up is a better choice. For ordinary single-line voice what you have is fine, though.

Post back if you have further questions.
 
  #8  
Old 04-03-11, 03:36 PM
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Greetings:

Have been deliberating over this project and a thought occured to me. Athough the second [voice only] line is necessary, it will only be used about two days out of the month. What if a wall jack [image uploaded to the same link in original post] was attached to the wood beam supporting all of the other connections in the image?

All of this wiring is in a plenum space. When needed, I can use a 10ft telephone cable to the phone and get power from a nearby outlet. I am told by Verizon that if a service tech has to do wiring, the minimum woul be $100 and as much as $300. I do want a second line with its own phone number in addition to my present phone line/number.

Verizon says that a tech must come out to determine the current wiring but the charges only apply if the tech must do additonal wiring. Can the tech get a dial tone if a wire pair from a new wall jack is properly connected to punch block?

I am a systems administrator and have worked with CAT-5 cable but some of your terms e.g. 'station cable' are not known to me. Would appreciate objective criticism/feasability of what I've suggested. Hoping for your continued support.

Phil
 
  #9  
Old 04-03-11, 06:43 PM
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Originally Posted by philpense View Post

All of this wiring is in a plenum space. When needed, I can use a 10ft telephone cable to the phone and get power from a nearby outlet.

Can the tech get a dial tone if a wire pair from a new wall jack is properly connected to punch block?

some of your terms e.g. 'station cable' are not known to me.
1. If the jack in the plenum works for you, it can be done.
2. The general rule post-Bell System breakup is that the tech will check for dial tone and proper operation at the NID. If you do not have a NID, they must install one upon request in most situations. If you do not have a NID, you are exposed to whatever charges the tech feels are appropriate. I would advise you to locate your NID, similar to what Ray posted, open it up, and post a photo or two. If you don't have a NID, you should get one. They will install it on the outside of the building where the cable comes from the pole or pedestal, but it needs to be grounded as well.
3. The station cables are the quad wires going out to your phone jacks from the blocks in the photos.

There's nothing magic about phone wiring. For each line you need two wires (one pair) from Verizon's facilities to your NID or demarcation. You hook up a jack to those two wires and plug in your phone. So in your case the critical question is, do you have a spare pair from Verizon's facilities to the place where you want the jack? I can't tell from the photos you posted.

Unfortunately I can't get more specific without seeing a closeup of the NID, the cable between the NID and your plenum blocks, and any wide shots that help provide perspective.

If you have ever hired somebody to do your office data wiring, they are probably familiar with this stuff.
 
  #10  
Old 04-16-11, 07:28 PM
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Status Note

All:



Just acquired appropriate gauge wire to continue the project
4 wire jack http://cid-63220807a7f4accb.photos.live.com/self.aspx/Phone%20Junction%20Box/Punch%20Panel%20Contact%20Posts.JPG#resId/63220807A7F4ACCB!3364


Image It is my intention to attach the wall jack to the wood beam next to the punch panel. From prior posts, I believe that the yellow/black wires should be connected to appropriate contacts on the punch panel. http://cid-63220807a7f4accb.photos.live.com/self.aspx/Phone%20Junction%20Box/Punch%20Panel%20Beam%20View.JPG


A close up view of the punch panel contact posts show that one need only position a wire between the prongs of a contact post. http://nxjohw.bay.livefilestore.com/y1piHEa_8szR_jtlG1Q3HHStyMo_lr7yW7dL5uQZX-qygK-4DM1rLZPg1UL0nWBbES254QHo5YcUuD2_87E7JNxpTKvKWCXZhb7/Punch%20Panel%20Close%20up.JPG?psid=1



After these items I will have to determine specifically which punch block posts to connect wires to.

If there is any constuctive criticism I would appreciate it.

Thanks to everyone
 

Last edited by Rick Johnston; 04-17-11 at 05:17 AM. Reason: Link to 1 of 3 photos. 1st and 2nd links are broken.
  #11  
Old 04-17-11, 05:31 AM
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Please see this thread: http://www.doityourself.com/forum/el...your-post.html

Keep in mind, though, that Windows Skydrive isn't a public site. Even if you "share" the photo to everyone it can only be seen by those who have a Windows Live account.

The punch-down block in the photo above uses IDCs, or Insulation Displacement Connectors. Telephone wires don't need to be stripped before they are landed to this block. All horizontal connections should be the same color, and all wires of the same color should enter through the plastic guide on the left. The wires should be seated all the way. The punch tool will cut off the excess wires. Bridge clips are used to jumper from one pair of connectors to the next.

Here's a good Wiki.
 
  #12  
Old 04-28-11, 10:16 AM
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Impasse?

Greetings

Have reviewed all posts in an effort to reconcille all of the good guidance I've gotten. An extensive search of the property did not reveal an NID. Only cables lon the property lead to a Direct TV Dish.

Can my project proceed without it? Even if I were to acquire one how could it be implemented without tampering with the other phone lines? Additionally, the recommendation to get a punch-down tool is something I could acquire but the punch block image in this post suggests that the wire was placed by hand.

Still hoping that this project can continue.

N.B. I have posted images on another DIY forum. My camera is high resolution and tend to exceed the limits...







Originally Posted by Rick Johnston View Post
Please see this thread: http://www.doityourself.com/forum/el...your-post.html

Keep in mind, though, that Windows Skydrive isn't a public site. Even if you "share" the photo to everyone it can only be seen by those who have a Windows Live account.

The punch-down block in the photo above uses IDCs, or Insulation Displacement Connectors. Telephone wires don't need to be stripped before they are landed to this block. All horizontal connections should be the same color, and all wires of the same color should enter through the plastic guide on the left. The wires should be seated all the way. The punch tool will cut off the excess wires. Bridge clips are used to jumper from one pair of connectors to the next.

Here's a good Wiki.
 

Last edited by philpense; 04-28-11 at 10:19 AM. Reason: typo
  #13  
Old 04-28-11, 11:06 AM
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NIDs are installed by the phone company. Picture can easily be reduced using free software such as IrfanView - Official Homepage - one of the most popular viewers worldwide .
 
  #14  
Old 04-28-11, 02:49 PM
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Originally Posted by philpense View Post
...search of the property did not reveal an NID ...
Can my project proceed without it?

...Additionally, the recommendation to get a punch-down tool is something I could acquire but the punch block image in this post suggests that the wire was placed by hand.
1. As I mentioned on 30 March, "If you do not have a NID you should check with your public service commission to see if the phone company is required to add one for free. In Wisconsin the LEC is required to add a NID for any current customer on request without charge in owner-occupied single-family homes that do not already have a NID. "

Your project can proceed without it, but as with any snail's pace project, the danger is that the people following the project forget what's already been covered in the thread and start repeating themselves. Speaking from experience, I am.

2. Besides the mechanical advantage of using a punchdown tool, the electrical advantage is that the act of punching displaces the insulation without exposing the conductor to air. Hence "IDC". The connections on the linked photo have already oxidized to some degree and depending on ambient humidity etc. may affect transmission.

3. My camera is medium resolution (maybe 3-7 MB per photo) and I can upload stuff to photobucket and use IMG links here with no trouble. On photobucket you can set the upload resolution to downgrade your photos so they don't take up too much space. Give it a shot if you wish.
 
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