Need a 220 line

Reply

  #1  
Old 05-05-11, 07:57 AM
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: May 2011
Location: New York City
Posts: 8
Need a 220 line

I just bought a welder and I need to put a 220 line in my garage. There are currently no 220 lines in my house. I live in NYC so i'm sure that there's 220 coming into my house. When it comes to my breaker box I don't know a lot at all. I can literally wire a car from scratch but when it comes to home electrics all I know is how to change switch's and outlets and run wires through a wall. I have included pictures of my breaker box. The garage is on the other side of the wall of the box. Running the wire is not a problem. Really all I will need is about 4ft of wire. I just have no clue as to how to get 220 from the box. Thank you in advance for your responses.

Pictures of my breaker box here:
ImageShack(TM) slideshow
 
Sponsored Links
  #2  
Old 05-05-11, 08:55 AM
Forum Topic Moderator
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Near Lansing, Michigan
Posts: 10,294
Your panel looks very close to being completely full. Is there a make and/or model number on the panel cover label? If the panel cover has a label could you include a pic of that? Is this a stand-alone house or part of a multi-unit building? Is the meter in the box to the bottom where the large black and blue wire go?
 
  #3  
Old 05-05-11, 08:59 AM
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: May 2011
Location: New York City
Posts: 8
A stand alone house. The box IS full. I was planning on putting in a new one. The meter is DIRECTLY under the box.
 
  #4  
Old 05-05-11, 09:17 AM
Forum Topic Moderator
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Near Lansing, Michigan
Posts: 10,294
Well you might be able to replace the remaining with single pole breakers with skinnys to free up enough space for a double-pole breaker for the welder. I want to check the model number to make sure that's an approved installation for your panel before I get into the details of how to do it.

Replacing the panel is a service upgrade/change and can turn into a pretty big job so it's best to avoid it unless you absolutely need to. Many areas don't even allow a homeowner to do it. I'm just guessing that NYC probably requires a licensed electrician to pull a permit for service a change or upgrade like many other big cities do.
 
  #5  
Old 05-05-11, 09:36 AM
Tolyn Ironhand's Avatar
Group Moderator
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Twin Cities, MN
Posts: 11,981
You have an FPE service panel. Besides them being linked to fires in homes the breakers for them are quite expensive since they are no longer made in the US. IMO the best course of action is to replace the panel with a new 100 amp service say around a 20 - 30 circuit would be good for now and the future. Given your skill set, you might want to get some bids on the change out. After that you can run your line for the welder.
 
  #6  
Old 05-05-11, 09:38 AM
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: May 2011
Location: New York City
Posts: 8
No license needed. I'm assuming it's fairly simple. Power and ground. I'll label all the wires before I disconnect everything. Tape all the ends. Take down the box. Wire everything back up A LOT neater than it is now.
 
  #7  
Old 05-05-11, 09:41 AM
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: May 2011
Location: New York City
Posts: 8
Plus if I really run into trouble I have 2 friends that are electricians that I can call in case of emergency.
 
  #8  
Old 05-05-11, 09:44 AM
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: May 2011
Location: New York City
Posts: 8
The specs on the welder says it draws 50 amps. What size breaker do I get?
What kind of wire do I need?
Are there different outlets for 220v?
 
  #9  
Old 05-05-11, 10:04 AM
Tolyn Ironhand's Avatar
Group Moderator
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Twin Cities, MN
Posts: 11,981
You can't just tape the ends of the live wires and disconnect the panel. You need to kill the power that is feeding the existing panel. I am guessing you will have to pull a permit to do this work, are you sure you are not required to move the meter to the outside of the home? Most cities do require this. I suggest talking to your electrician friends.

Can you post the model of the welder?
There are different configurations of 240 volt receptacles depending on the equipment it is powering. Does the welder have a plug on it now?

BTW - This info was found here: Department of Buildings

"ED16A Electrical Permit Application
Use this form for electrical work, including the removal of electrical violations. This form should ONLY be filed by Licensed Electricians."
 
  #10  
Old 05-05-11, 10:15 AM
Gunguy45's Avatar
Super Moderator
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: USA
Posts: 20,854
Uhhhh fairly simple? I think you are underestimating that. You'll have to kill power into the box..not just remove and replace wires. Is there a disconnect between the meter and box? If not, you'll need to have the meter pulled and blanked while you do the work. Some places may allow an electrician to do it, others require that the power company (PoCo) do it. It may be simple, but it can be dangerous

No license needed? Pretty sure it would at least require a permit...unless you mean you just aren't going to pull one.
 
  #11  
Old 05-05-11, 10:18 AM
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: May 2011
Location: New York City
Posts: 8
Lincoln AC-225S K1170 Stick Welder
 
  #12  
Old 05-05-11, 10:27 AM
Tolyn Ironhand's Avatar
Group Moderator
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Twin Cities, MN
Posts: 11,981
Originally Posted by BombSquad91 View Post
Lincoln AC-225S K1170 Stick Welder
Ok so it has a NEMA 6-50P on it, so you will need #6/2 w/g 2 copper NM-b (if NM-b is allowed in NYC) and a 50 amp breaker. If you use another wiring method such as EMT, PVC or flex you can use #8 THHN. Be sure to pull a ground with PVC and Flex. EMT will require you to ground the receptacle to the j- box.
 
  #13  
Old 05-05-11, 10:30 AM
Member
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Milwaukee WI
Posts: 1,338
Originally Posted by Gunguy45 View Post

No license needed? Pretty sure it would at least require a permit...unless you mean you just aren't going to pull one.
I'm guessing that somebody using the name "BombSquad91" is not going to be too concerned about something as trivial as an arc flash, let alone a permit.
 
  #14  
Old 05-05-11, 10:31 AM
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: May 2011
Location: New York City
Posts: 8
Originally Posted by Tolyn Ironhand View Post
Ok so it has a NEMA 6-50P on it, so you will need #6/2 w/g 2 copper NM-b (if NM-b is allowed in NYC) and a 50 amp breaker. If you use another wiring method such as EMT, PVC or flex you can use #8 THHN. Be sure to pull a ground with PVC and Flex. EMT will require you to ground the receptacle to the j- box.
I have no idea what you just said.
#6/2 - Two wire 6 gauge wire?
What's NM-b?
j-box?
Also, to get the 220v all I have to do is buy a 220v 50 amp breaker?
The outlet will be placed only 4 feet from the box by the way.
 
  #15  
Old 05-05-11, 10:36 AM
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: May 2011
Location: New York City
Posts: 8
Originally Posted by ArgMeMatey View Post
I'm guessing that somebody using the name "BombSquad91" is not going to be too concerned about something as trivial as an arc flash, let alone a permit.
220V arc flashes can happen but aren't common.
 
  #16  
Old 05-05-11, 12:13 PM
Tolyn Ironhand's Avatar
Group Moderator
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Twin Cities, MN
Posts: 11,981
Originally Posted by BombSquad91 View Post
I have no idea what you just said.
And your planing to change your own panel? While changing your panel is not "hard", doing it safely and correctly (not just so it works) takes knowledge and experience. Our main concern is yours, and everybody's safety.

Originally Posted by BombSquad91 View Post
#6/2 - Two wire 6 gauge wire?
Yes, You may use #6 NM-b (see below) or #8 THHN (individual conductors)

Originally Posted by BombSquad91 View Post
What's NM-b?
NM-b is non-metallic cable, many cases called "Romex"

Originally Posted by BombSquad91 View Post
j-box?
Junction Box

Originally Posted by BombSquad91 View Post
Also, to get the 220v all I have to do is buy a 220v 50 amp breaker?
Yes, you will need a 2 pole 50 amp breaker.

Originally Posted by BombSquad91 View Post
The outlet will be placed only 4 feet from the box by the way.
Since you will be that close I would use EMT and THHN wire.

Originally Posted by BombSquad91 View Post
220V arc flashes can happen but aren't common.
Why be the exception? Also, the wires on the meter side of the panel are not fused. You have no overcurrent protection to trip in case something goes wrong.
 
Reply

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Thread Tools
Search this Thread
Display Modes
'