Any Room in this Panel?

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  #1  
Old 05-15-11, 04:56 PM
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Any Room in this Panel?

Can anyone tell me by looking at this panel whether there's room to add circuits or if I'd have to upgrade the panel?

Thanks in advance.








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  #2  
Old 05-15-11, 05:06 PM
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That panel is listed to use all "skinny" (half-width) or doubled circuit breakers so from that point yes, you have room to add. The challenge (pun intended) will be to find circuit breakers that are "listed" for use in that panel as Westinghouse/Challenger is no longer made.
 
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Old 05-15-11, 05:46 PM
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Thanks very much. I expected to run across some sort of challenge!
 
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Old 05-15-11, 06:12 PM
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IIRC Cuttler Hammer BR breakers are listed for Westinghouse panels. Be sure to check the package or manufacture info.
Here is a random link I found doing a quick search on Google: Bryant Westinghouse Cutler Hammer Br, BQ, BJ Breakers Shipped Fast I do know they sell them at our local Menard's stores and likely other big box stores
 
  #5  
Old 05-15-11, 06:22 PM
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Those tandems look like siemens.
 
  #6  
Old 05-17-11, 02:50 PM
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Okay, so that I'm clear, to gain 3 circuits, what I would do is replace those 3 breakers midway down on the left side (the ones with the white stickers on them) with 6 skinny breakers.

Imageshack - img1731w.jpg

The breakers at the top left of the panel look to be skinny ones. So if I found 6 breakers that matched those, I'd be set?

Thanks for the help guys!
 
  #7  
Old 05-17-11, 05:16 PM
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You do not use skinnies, you use tandems.
One of those circuts appears to be a mwbc and must be oppositely phased, must have a double-pole breaker.
There is also a 240V circut which must also have a 2-pole breaker. Best to buy a Quad breaker and land the mwbc and the 240V circut on that and use the other two spaces for the tandems.
Where is that blue wire going on the top left breaker that looks like a siemens?
 
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Old 05-17-11, 07:02 PM
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Cutler-Hammer BR series is the correct U.L. Listed replacement for Challenger, Westinghouse, Bryant, some Sylvania (not Zinsco style), some Frank Adams, some FPEs, Sears and several more obsolete brands.

This is a twin BR2020 (pictures shows BR1515) for 120 volt circuits
Eaton Electrical/Cutler-Hamm BR2020 2-20A Single Pole Tandem Breaker

This is a quad for 240 volt circuits
Cutler-Hammer BQ230250 30 Amp 50 Amp Double Pole Circuit Breaker

Some quads are for both 240 volt and 120 volt circuits
Eaton's Cutler-Hammer, Circuit Breaker, BQ2302120 - Brand New
 
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Old 05-17-11, 07:43 PM
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Cutler-Hammer BR series is the correct U.L. Listed replacement for Challenger, Westinghouse, Bryant, some Sylvania (not Zinsco style), some Frank Adams, some FPEs, Sears and several more obsolete brands.
I have a westinghouse breaker marked BR120. Another marked BR120R. 20A with a red handle.
 
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Old 05-17-11, 09:08 PM
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Originally Posted by Justin Smith View Post
I have a westinghouse breaker marked BR120. Another marked BR120R. 20A with a red handle.
Bryant breakers were similarly marked and the red handle sounds like a Bryant. I used to know a technical guy, now retired, who worked for Cutler-Hammer. He came from the Challenger/Zinsco/FPE family and became a Cutler-Hammer employee when Eaton bought Westinghouse and the rest. I think he actually started with Frank Adams and continued through the companies as acquisitions took place. He once told me that Westinghouse made most of the older common breakers such as Bryant, Sylvania, Challenger, Sears etc as well as their own label. I have no documentation, but it is a reasonable idea since the Cutler-Hammer BR series is the U.L. Listed replacement for all those old lines. If you carefully examine an old Challenger breaker, you'll see it is identical in all details to the new BR series. Interesting subject, I wish there was a manual somewhere that would tell these stories.
 
  #11  
Old 05-17-11, 11:57 PM
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I don't think those tandems are Siemens breakers, but I could be wrong. Here's a closer picture:
Imageshack - img1757o.jpg

The blue wire says, "moisture resistant" on it. I'm not sure where it goes though. I'll take a look tomorrow to see what's on that circuit.
 
  #12  
Old 05-18-11, 03:00 PM
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Those 20T's do not look like siemens, however those 15T's do. There is alos a 20 standard with a blue line that looks as siemens. I need to read the labels on the breakers to know. I remember seeing breakers that looked like that in a QO panel at my old house, but I do not remember much about them other than there was no squared logo and they were not tandems and never tripped.
 
  #13  
Old 05-18-11, 06:55 PM
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They look like the old Challenger tandems to me. The 20 tandems and 15 tandems look the same except for amperage, but they are oriented 180 degrees apart which may make them look different, but they are actually the same.

Siemens makes a classified breaker to fit a QO panel, maybe that's what you had.
 
  #14  
Old 05-18-11, 08:13 PM
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They still look like siemens. Maybe they used the same mould? I saw siemens ones just like that at the fairgrounds.

Is the siemens QO breaker any cheaper than genuine?
 
  #15  
Old 05-19-11, 06:11 PM
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Siemens and Challenger were two different companies, I doubt they would have shared the molds.

Looks to me like the Siemens classified version of the Square D QO single pole 20 amp breaker is $10.08. I don't know what you pay for the real QO.
Amazon.com: Siemens D120 UL Classified Replacement Square D ?QO? Circuit Breaker, 1-Pole 20-Amp: Home Improvement
 
  #16  
Old 05-19-11, 09:15 PM
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As long as they are challenger, they are fine.

I pay 4.97 for a qo at the big orange. I will stop by my supply house, to see if it is cheaper, as they specialize in siemens.
 
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