Adding a Hot Tub to the back porch

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Old 05-19-11, 11:08 PM
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Question Adding a Hot Tub to the back porch

Before I ask questions, I just want to say that I'm not new to electrical work and I know a bit about the NEC, so I just want to make sure this is done right within the NEC.

This will be 220v service to the hot tub.

The hot tub will require a 60A GFCI, but the guy "specialist" at Home Depot Electrical is telling me I need to have a cut-off subpanel 6 feet from the hot tub, according to NEC. Is this true? Otherwise I was just going to install a GFCI 60A breaker in the main service panel. I'd like to know about this for sure because it means a decent difference in pricing.

I know to ground the sub-panel disconnect box to the ground with a ground rod.

The new slab has been poured, so I cannot run the electrical underneath the hot tub, as it was setup at the previous hot tub owner's house. I have been told that I can use non-metallic 3/4" inch conduit to run the 6/3 cable to the tub. As it stands now I'm gonna have to drill a 3/4" hole in the side of the tub's wooden frame to get the conduit/wiring in there.

Home Depot guy says I can strip the wiring off the 6/3 cabling and run the individual wires in the conduit and that with 3/4" non-metallic conduit it would be best to do so or else I risk it sweating inside the conduit if i left the 6/3 cable outer jacket on over the wires. This sound right?

I will be dropping the 6/3 from the attic through the soffit (underhang outside) instead of running it down inside the "wall" of the house because this just seems easier and I plan to have the conduit run from the soffit to the tub around the wiring. My concern here is "How do I route the conduit with regards to the NEC?" - so that it is safe etc.. ?

Where I was going to do it was to just follow the concrete from the house wall to the hot tub to lay the conduit down only about 2-3 feet away and I was gonna fasten it down somehow, but I need to know if I am supposed to go down the house wall, then into the ground, then back up out of the ground and into the hot tub with it such to not have conduit/wiring laying on the concrete.

Besides this I will be junction-ing the 220v line in the attic in a junction box. There was an old 220 line down to an old oven/range that is no longer in use, so I will cut that off and reroute it to the hot tub, to avoid running a new 220 run to the main panel. Any issues to know of here?

Well, that is all I can think of. I appreciate whoever replies. Please ask me questions if I haven't given you enough info.
 
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Old 05-19-11, 11:36 PM
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Sorry to have to start this way but from what you wrote you obviously do not have a working knowledge of the National Electrical Code and also have some serious misinformation.

First of all, it is extremely doubtful that you have 220 volts at your residence, 240 volts has been the standard for at least the last forty years. Secondly, sub-panels within the same building as the service panel are NOT grounded via a ground rod.

No, you do not need a "cut-off subpanel 6 feet from the hot tub" but you DO need a local disconnect that is located a minimum of 6 feet but less than 50 feet AND in a direct line-of-sight of the hot tub. A 60 ampere pull-out disconnect such as is used for air conditioners will suffice. You also need a 120 volt GFCI receptacle within 25 feet of the hot tub but still a minimum of six feet away from the tub itself.

Yes, you may use non-metallic conduit providing it is protected from physical damage. If you are running it across the top of the slab and into the hot tub surround it will likely need to be metallic of intermediate or rigid weight or else layer a "speed bump" of concrete over the conduit.

Home Depot guy says I can strip the wiring off the 6/3 cabling and run the individual wires in the conduit and that with 3/4" non-metallic conduit it would be best to do so or else I risk it sweating inside the conduit if i left the 6/3 cable outer jacket on over the wires. This sound right?
NO! That is absolutely WRONG! You are NEVER allowed to use individual conductors from a cable assembly. The interior of conduit systems outdoors or buried will almost always collect water via condensation. Further, if the 6/3 cable you were planning on using has a bare equipment grounding conductor it is NOT acceptable to be used between the local disconnect and the hot tub itself. You MUST use an insulated (green color) conductor for the equipment grounding conductor.

I will be dropping the 6/3 from the attic through the soffit (underhang outside) instead of running it down inside the "wall" of the house because this just seems easier and I plan to have the conduit run from the soffit to the tub around the wiring. My concern here is "How do I route the conduit with regards to the NEC?" - so that it is safe etc.. ?
All conduit must be run in a manner that protects it from physical damage, plastic conduit is easily subject to damage as is Electrical Metallic Tubing (EMT) so either intermediate or rigid (IMC or RMC) may be required. Unless the 6/3 cable you are planning on using is type UF it cannot be used outside. You may have type NM cable run from the attic space to a junction box immediately outside the attic and transition to individual type THWN or THHN/THWN conductors before entering the conduit.

Besides this I will be junction-ing the 220v line in the attic in a junction box. There was an old 220 line down to an old oven/range that is no longer in use, so I will cut that off and reroute it to the hot tub, to avoid running a new 220 run to the main panel. Any issues to know of here?
Unlikely that is is acceptable. Older range circuits were wired with only three conductors, two "hot" and a neutral. You need an equipment grounding conductor all the way from the service panel to the hot tub. The old range circuit may also have been run with type SE cable and does not have an insulated neutral and could be aluminum conductors.
 
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Old 05-19-11, 11:46 PM
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Also, just reading some more - Do I have to have an outdoor 120v receptacle branching off the 220v outdoor disconnect/subpanel box in order for this to be up to code? Why is this required or is it?
 
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Old 05-19-11, 11:50 PM
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Good reply furd, I went through the same thing when I wired my hot tub. Was so excited, and went through all the expense to hook it up. (copper wire in that size is $$$$)

Anyway had it 2 seasons. Electric bill was $100-$150 a month on top of my regular electric bill. Sold it on that auction site the 3rd season. Lucky I got most of the money for it. You cant give hot tubs away these days. Go on that free list site, and there are a dozen of them...FREE!!!!

All I have to show for it is a 240 disconnect out in the yard. I am still pondering what to do with it.

seacherrr, hot tubs are nice but costly.

My 2 cents

Mike NJ
 
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Old 05-20-11, 09:08 AM
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Originally Posted by searcherrr View Post
Do I have to have an outdoor 120v receptacle branching off the 220v outdoor disconnect/subpanel box in order for this to be up to code?
It does not need to be fed from the same disconnect panel as the tub. It can be fed from another circuit in the home or you can count an existing receptacle if it is already installed on the patio, etc.

Why is this required or is it?
The receptacle is required for service of the tub, shop vac out the filter, etc.
 
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Old 05-20-11, 12:58 PM
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Let me clear up a couple things:

0. I know exactly what I'm doing. I do not move forward without obtaining 100% accurate information first, which is why I am on here challenging what the so-called Home Depot "specialist" told me a couple days ago. Thanks up front for passive and aggressive responses. No sarcasm, as I really do appreciate it.

1. 220 and 240v, to my understanding, go loosely hand and hand in reference. Sure I know I don't have a 220 or 240 SERVICE coming into the house... I know I'll need to do a double pole breaker.

2. Sub-panel location - not physically INSIDE the same building. Intention was to put the sub-panel (aka disconnect box?) OUTSIDE near the hot tub and there is a special ground screw and "metal rod" in this "spa disconnect box" for attaching a ground rod to it and then the ground rod goes into the ground. I am not talking about GROUNDING this subpanel to the neutral bar, as I know this would be wrong to do since its a sub-panel.

3. What is the difference in a sub-panel vs a disconnect box? Are they not logically the same if either contain a 60A GFCI breaker, for this project?

4. Thanks for the notes about the 120v receptacle. I find this odd, but ok. We do already have a back porch 120v receptacle, but I did want to add another. An accessory question was going to be, can I run an additional 120v receptacle off of the 220v disconnect/outdoor sub-panel if I wanted a 2nd 120v receptacle outside? I think the disconnect box I was looking to get had 2 spaces and 4 circuits.

5. Speed bump - Yes, I was thinking of making one out of wood, but if there is a better option sold at the store I'll probably use that.

6. It is then "OK" to run 6/3 to the outdoor disconnect and then run individual stranded THHN or THWN or combo kind, 6awg from disconnect to the tub?

7. If I verify that the old 220v run to the range is 4 lines, grounded, insulated, not aluminum, and not SE cable can I use the old cable run? I seem to remember capping off 4 lines behind the range, but I will check again to be sure.

8. In response to the other post-er: I know this rill raise the electric bill, but I don't think my lady partner cares about that part because her back needs it. Still, I think what is going to happen is it will get used just a couple times a month to avoid $$$ on the electric bill. The

Guess thats all for now. I'll be waiting. Thanks a bunch to all.
 
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Old 05-20-11, 01:32 PM
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Originally Posted by searcherrr View Post
220 and 240v, to my understanding, go loosely hand and hand in reference.
It is semantics to some extent; there is 125V-class voltage which in practice is 110-127V ideally centered on 120V and a similar interval for 250V-class voltage ideally centered on 240V. A long time ago the voltages were 110V and 220V respectively and apparently the names stuck.

OUTSIDE near the hot tub and there is a special ground screw and "metal rod" in this "spa disconnect box" for attaching a ground rod to it
If the subpanel is mounted on the exterior wall of the house it is considered part of the house. If you mount it on an axillary structure like a deck attached to the house it is a grey area. If it's on it's own pedestal or outbuilding, then it would be considered a completely separate structure requiring a full ground system.

The lug on the tub is for bonding, which is connecting all of the conductive surfaces around the tub with a solid #8 wire to equalize ground potential. This would not be connected to a ground rod, but would be connected to the rebar in the slab underneath the tub if it is on concrete.

3. What is the difference in a sub-panel vs a disconnect box? Are they not logically the same if either contain a 60A GFCI breaker, for this project?
A subpanel is always a disconnect, but a disconnect is not always a subpanel. A plain disconnect does not have overcurrent (amps) protection, only a switching mechanism to cut power. Code only requires that a disconnect be in the line-of-sight zone (meaning the breaker could be anywhere else), but it is usually convenient to get both functions with the same subpanel.

can I run an additional 120v receptacle off of the 220v disconnect/outdoor sub-panel
Yes. Some of the "spa kit" panels have this built in already.

is then "OK" to run 6/3 to the outdoor disconnect and then run individual stranded THHN or THWN or combo kind, 6awg from disconnect to the tub?
Yes. The cables can run through the interior of the house. Outside the house you need the conduit and THHN with a green insulated ground wire. Conduit should be 3/4" minimum. Again this is why a panel mounted on the exterior wall of the house is convenient: romex from main panel to spa panel on outside wall, conduit from outside subpanel to tub.

If I verify that the old 220v run to the range is 4 lines...
Yes. Verify the AWG too as many ranges are only configured for #8 / 40A.

I know this rill raise the electric bill
It's much less of an issue in your climate than it is up here keeping water at 100 when it's 5 outside. Most of the modern tubs have energy saving timers that can help too, set it to be warm just for the hours you usually use it and the heater can go to idle for the rest of the day.

edit: I just reread your OP and saw the concrete is already poured. I know it sucks to cut fresh concrete, but I really don't like tripping hazards. I would rent a concrete saw and cut a channel for the conduit to go under the slab. If the slab is 4" or more thick you can put the pipe right under the concrete with no additional burial depth.
 
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Old 05-20-11, 01:33 PM
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I am not a electrician. All I could tell you is how the union electrician wired mine, and what I was told.

I have a 50 amp GFI breaker in the panal. Why 50 amp? Thats what the hot tub required I think.

He then ran I guess 6/3 wire to the tub, were there is a lock box with a 50 amp breaker.(about 3 ft in plain site) From there to the tub with the same sized wire. I could of put a disconnect where you pysically remove a bar that cuts power, but the breaker box came with the tub. That disconnect would need fuses in it. The wire was seperate wire from spools. He measured the lengths from house to panel and taped them all togther.

When he ran the wire in the conduit, he tapped off my 120v pool outlet breaker 15 amp, so I have a outlet by the tub. He ran this wire in the same conduit. Only two outlets on that breaker. Added a shed light to it also, since the tub is next to the shed.

He specifically said no ground rod. The tub is grounded by the house, and if you add a ground rod it does something you dont want. The electricians here can tell you that.

Also a key note. If the wire was not long enough and you need to join wire of this size, there are special connecters by code. He gave me one to look at. Its a big wire block with small bolts. He said you just cant wirenut this stuff togther.

Also there is some code on how many wires can be in whatever size conduit. He said because of heat I believe.

Mike NJ
 
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Old 05-20-11, 02:27 PM
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Only thing I can add is EMT or PVC strapped to wall would likely be fine unless there is car traffic or similar.

Cutler Hammer makes a handy spa disconnect with a 60 amp GFCI breaker a two extra spaces for adding the required service receptacle. IIRC it is about $100.
 
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Old 05-20-11, 05:59 PM
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Just a few years ago a Midwest Spa Disconnect at Lowes was about $60 including a 50 amp 2 pole GE GFI breaker. I believe they also were available with a 60 amp GFI breaker for about the same price. Haven't checked recently, but I would bet one of the big box stores still stocks them.

Similar to this.

Midwest UG412RMW260P Spa Disconnect Panel at PropertyRoom.com
 
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Old 05-20-11, 06:36 PM
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Here is a disconnect panel from sqd, with a plastic enclosure.

Amazon.com: Square D #QOE250GFINM QO60A Enclosure SpaPack: Home Improvement
 
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Old 05-23-11, 11:15 AM
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You guys are great. Thanks so much for the wonderful information. I will let you know how it turns out and of course ask more questions if I come across anything else unknown. Today we're focusing on having the tub moved.
 
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Old 06-01-11, 12:51 AM
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Question

Well, here goes:

1. After examining the wiring to the old oven/range in the attic (the one I was gonna cut and use so I wouldn't have to make a run to the main breaker box) it seems that it is of the type E1B679 (UL) 3 CDRS AWG 8 TYPE NM 600V. It doesn't appear to be type SE cable with a bare neutral and while it is on a 60A circuit breaker, the hot tub installation manual explicitly says on hot tubs with 2 qty air pumps to use no smaller than 6 AWG wiring and a 60A breaker. So, what this tells me is that the previous hot tub owner's (who had this setup running on 8 AWG wiring) electrical guy didn't do his homework. This tub may see, for the first time, its full use potential since I'll be putting it on the correct wiring the instructions calls for.

2. Route conduit in a manner that doesn't expose it to traffic and yard maintenance dangers etc.. - check

3. 60A gfci breaker spa disconnect box purchased. - check

4. Note to use insulated wiring from disconnect box to hot tub. - check

5. 120V GFCI receptacle purchased. Going to replace the back porch one with this. It is further than 6ft away and before 25ft away. - check

6. Grounding goes through the grounding line to the house main breaker box, not a ground rod separate for the disconnect/subpanel box. - check

7. Question: Connecting 6 awg cabling together. I'm going to try to avoid this now that I know I can't use the 8 awg line already in the attic, but what is truly an acceptable NEC method of joining the 6 awg cabling together? I have obtained the largest wire nuts I could find that claim to be able to join only 2 qt 6 awg cable ends together. I figured those would be fine with oodles of electrical tape. If not I also saw these "coupling lugs" (if you will) which just basically mate the two cable ends together. It wasn't a terminal block design... it was just made for two cable ends to join, with screws to press the cable ends down into place, and then oodles of electrical tape. Which is the way to go? The lugs were like almost $5 a piece. I have 30ft of 6/3 and I think it will make it from the main breaker to the disconnect on the outside wall, but if it doesn't I'm not sure I can return the 6/3 to get the right length.
 
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Old 06-01-11, 04:20 AM
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If the 6/3 you bought was NM-B, it cannot be used for the exterior portion of the circuit at all. NM-B can only be used inside. Into the back of the disconnect would be fine.

Properly installed wire nuts do not need tape. The barrel splice will need to be insulated. I would use rubber tape and then a couple layers of good quality vinyl tape. You could also use heat shrink tubing.
 
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Old 06-01-11, 07:35 PM
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For splicing the wires, use a polaris.
The gfci needs to be lister weather-resistant, and also have a bubble cover if it can get rained on.
 
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Old 06-07-11, 11:48 PM
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Into the back of the disconnect would be fine... as in through the interior wall to the outside into the box? I can't simply run the 6/3 from the soffet into the disconnect box like 1 or 2 or 3 feet down along the outside wall using a conduit?

GFCI outlets - Are there really different GFCI outlets marked for outside use vs inside use? IE: I can't just get a GFCI outlet and just put the bubble cover over it outside?
 
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Old 06-08-11, 07:32 AM
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I can't simply run the 6/3 from the soffet into the disconnect box like 1 or 2 or 3 feet down along the outside wall using a conduit?
No. The wire would be running outside and outside wiring for a hot tub must have an insulated ground. The ground in a cable is bare. You could place a J-box and transition to THWN single conductors in conduit using an insulated ground wire.

There are weather resistant GFCIs but usually they are not required. It's best to check with your AHJ.
 
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Old 06-08-11, 05:23 PM
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I can't simply run the 6/3 from the soffet into the disconnect box like 1 or 2 or 3 feet down along the outside wall using a conduit?
In addition to what Ray said, running on the outside wall, even in conduit, would be either a damp or wet location and your 6-3 romex is probably type NM-B which is only approved for dry locations.
 
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Old 06-08-11, 08:37 PM
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Would it hurt if I reinsulated the bare ground wire portion that will be outside for like 3 - 5 feet? I have some old insulated wire I could "pull off of" and put it around the bare copper to insulate it. I know this would be a somewhat loose insulation, but it would be something covering it. I guess the insulation has to be "skin tight" you could say right? Probably what I'm asking isn't allowed, but thought I'd throw it out there.
 
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Old 06-08-11, 09:12 PM
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You are right it wouldn't be OK and it would still be the wrong type of cable.

Why not just do it right instead of trying to think up ways to do it wrong.
 
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Old 06-08-11, 10:47 PM
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Because 30ft of 6/3 is $100 and I already bought it weeks ago. I know yer right, except when yer wrong (hehe). I just didn't want to have to eat the cost on wasted footage of cable. We'll see how it works out, but in any case I will write it right or I'll feel guilty. Good ole Catholic guilt.... works like a charm.
 
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Old 06-09-11, 07:21 AM
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I just didn't want to have to eat the cost on wasted footage of cable.
Any time you buy cable there should be some waste to allow for the unexpected so you bought the correct length. 90% is still usable. You just need to transition to THWN in conduit for the last few feet. Your purchase was correct nothing wasted that you wouldn't expect to be wasted.
 
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Old 06-13-11, 04:03 PM
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Ran half the cable last night in attic from fuse box to junction box.

How deep does the conduit have to be outside in the dirt/ground along the concrete edge??

I am not going down into the concrete. I'm going into the dirt along the edge of the freshly poured concrete. The length of buried conduit will only be about 7 feet. Rest of the conduit will be run along the side wall of the house from the soffet with clamps in the brick.
 
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Old 06-13-11, 04:07 PM
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Eighteen inches deep.

..
 
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Old 06-13-11, 05:48 PM
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12'' if it's gfi protected.
 
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Old 06-13-11, 07:09 PM
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Originally Posted by Justin Smith View Post
12'' if it's gfi protected.
Not if it is a 60 amp circuit. His is 60a so it must be 18" even with a GFCI breaker.
 
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Old 06-14-11, 02:19 AM
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What amperage would allow for 12" deep if protected by GFCI?
 
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Old 06-14-11, 04:50 AM
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It would need to be a120 volt circuit at 20 amps or less.
 
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Old 06-25-11, 03:23 AM
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Question

1. On the 60amp GFCI breaker in my subpanel (came with the subpanel), there is a screw down spot for a neutral wire. I am figuring this is where the neutral from the hot tub control box goes to. The 60amp GFCI breaker's pigtail neutral was already installed on the neutral lug bar in this subpanel. I will attach the house/main neutral to the neutral lug bar as well.

My question is, on the diagram that comes with the subpanel I swear it looks as if I'd attach the neutral from the hot tub to the neutral lug bar instead of on the GFCI breaker neutral terminal. Would it make any difference if I put the hot tub neutral in either spot?

If the hot tub neutral isn't going to the GFCI neutral terminal screw, but is going to the neutral lug bar, and the GFCI breaker pigtail is already connected to the subpanel's neutral bar would this negate the reason for using the GFCI breaker?

The subpanel diagram seems to indicate I could connect from hot tub neutral to neutral lug bar, but on the breaker itself it looks as though I should connect the hot tub neutral to the GFCI breaker. Also, according to this wonderful diagram: Wiring a Hot Tub - Electrical Installation and Wiring Diagrams it looks as though I should be connecting the hot tub neutral directly to the GFCI breaker. See why I'm confused?

2. Does the required GFCI 120v normal outlet have to be a GFCI outlet or would it suffice if I had a normal 120v outlet that was on a GFCI circuit breaker in the main service panel in the house?

3. Grounding. I want to ask this one more time to be safe. I am aware subpanel's branching off of an already setup house main service will use the house's main service panel ground terminal lugs and that in the subpanel the neutral and ground terminal bar's are not to connect. Having said that clearly, is this correct: I DO NOT NEED TO GROUND THE SUBPANEL "CASE" SEPARATELY TO THE EARTH? and by separately I mean, not attached to any of the 4 lines involved in my 240v hot tub subpanel setup.

Thank you for your patience and help. I am at the end of my journey. I have the hot tub & subpanel connections made. Now I just have the main panel connections left to do last.
 
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Old 06-25-11, 07:13 AM
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My question is, on the diagram that comes with the subpanel I swear it looks as if I'd attach the neutral from the hot tub to the neutral lug bar instead of on the GFCI breaker neutral terminal. Would it make any difference if I put the hot tub neutral in either spot?
Although you may have purchased a packaged panel with the GFI breaker pre-installed, I doubt that panel was specifically manufactured just to have a GFI breaker. I suspect the panel's label shows the typical neutral termination to be on the panel's neutral bar, but in your case you need to follow instructions normally packed with the GFI breaker and land your neutral conductor on the GFI's neutral lug. Only the GFI breaker's pigtailed neutral would land on the panel neutral bar. And, yes, the neutral and ground feeding the panel need to be separate. The neutral bar should not be bonded to the panel box. The ground from the main panel should land on a separate ground bar. The ground to the hot tub should also land on this same ground bar.
 
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Old 06-25-11, 12:29 PM
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Originally Posted by searcherrr View Post
1. On the 60amp GFCI breaker in my subpanel (came with the subpanel), there is a screw down spot for a neutral wire.
The hot tub neutral goes to the neutral terminal on the GFCI breaker. The neutral pigtail from the GFCI breaker goes to the panel neutral bar, as does the neutral feeder from the house panel.

Does the required GFCI 120v normal outlet have to be a GFCI outlet or would it suffice if I had a normal 120v outlet that was on a GFCI circuit breaker
Either is okay.

I DO NOT NEED TO GROUND THE SUBPANEL "CASE" SEPARATELY TO THE EARTH?
As long as the subpanel is part of the house structure it should not have separate earth grounding. If the subpanel is at an outbuilding then earth grounding is required.

Enjoy the tub.
 
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Old 06-25-11, 01:10 PM
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Does the required GFCI 120v normal outlet have to be a GFCI outlet or would it suffice if I had a normal 120v outlet that was on a GFCI circuit breaker
The receptacle still needs to be listed weather resistant with a bubble cover. I personally reccomend to use a 20-amp receptacle if it is on a 20A breaker, but it is not required.
 
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Old 06-25-11, 02:16 PM
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No need to use a 20 amp receptacle unless it is for a device that requires it. The internals are usually the same as 15amp. Only the plastic face is different.
 
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Old 06-25-11, 04:05 PM
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Originally Posted by Justin Smith View Post
The receptacle still needs to be listed weather resistant with a bubble cover. I personally reccomend to use a 20-amp receptacle if it is on a 20A breaker, but it is not required.
I doubt that the OP will have anything that requires the T-slot of a 20 amp receptacle. A good quality 15 amp duplex is fine.
 
  #35  
Old 06-25-11, 08:58 PM
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Seriously, all you guys are just awesome. I did it right, as per all your instructions and I'm about to make the connections in the main service panel tonight. If we're lucky we'll clean the tub, fill it and use it tonight if I'm extra careful (as usual) making the final connections. I'll let ya'll know how it goes.
 
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Old 06-25-11, 10:39 PM
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It is 12:36 AM CDT, and I am hoping someone is up to help me with this unforeseen problem. I have a CC2150 150 AMP Main Service Breaker on our home's main panel and it will NOT TURN OFF. By this I mean that it will not stay in the OFF switched position when I attempt to push it in that direction. Any other Main Principal service breaker I've dealt with just stays in the off position when pushed to well.... OFF. Is this some magic trick to getting it to stay in off position or is this main breaker broken somehow?

Obviously I cannot proceed with installing a new breaker for the hot tub circuit till I can shut off the main power. I've got the panel off now etc.. so I'm waiting to see what someone on here says. Thanks again!
 
  #37  
Old 06-25-11, 10:47 PM
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Can I safely install the new 60 AMP Hot Tub GFCI breaker without turning off the MAIN PRINCIPAL BREAKER?
 
  #38  
Old 06-26-11, 06:39 AM
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Originally Posted by searcherrr View Post
Can I safely install the new 60 AMP Hot Tub GFCI breaker without turning off the MAIN PRINCIPAL BREAKER?
You previously stated the 60 amp GFI breaker was in the subpanel, pre-installed. If this is going in the main panel to feed the subpanel, you don't need or want a GFI breaker there, but just a 2 pole 60 amp breaker. I would install it without turning off the main breaker, but whether you can do it safely is based upon your experience and skill level.
 
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Old 06-27-11, 02:01 AM
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I misspoke. I know I needed to feed the subpanel with a regular 60amp 2 pole breaker. I was asking about putting that one in the main principal and the problem I was having was the main would not shut off and I wasn't aware it was advisable to install new breakers while all the rest of the power is on. I can see how you could do it if you are very careful and aware about where your body/hands are, but I like turning off all the power to do that stuff anyway.

In any case the MAIN eventually did turn off after I held it for a couple of seconds and thereafter it started working normally (instant off).

BUT THE BIGGEST NEWS IS!!!!! THE HOT TUB WORKS!!!! WORKS WONDERFULLY!!! ITS GREAT!!! ITS LIKE I DID MAGIC OR SOMETHING!!! THIS WAS MY FIRST EVER 240V CIRCUIT!!! AND IT JUST ALL CAME OUT GREAT!!! I ONLY HAVE YOU GUYS TO SHARE THE FEELING OF ACCOMPLISHMENT WITH BECAUSE EVERYONE ELSE JUST SAYS, "YAY A HOT TUB." NOT REALLY REALIZING WHAT I'VE DONE TO MAKE IT WORK. IT LOOKS LIKE A PROFESSIONAL DID IT AND THATS HOW I INTENDED!!! THANKS SO MUCH EVERYONE!!
 
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Old 06-27-11, 05:45 AM
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Everyone here has felt your sort of joy and is glad your project was successful. Thanks for letting us know.

I wasn't aware it was advisable to install new breakers while all the rest of the power is on.
It is not but Pros sometimes do it. It can be dangerous.

In any case the MAIN eventually did turn off after I held it for a couple of seconds and thereafter it started working normally (instant off).
Some advise to "exercise" your breakers occasionally to be sure they don't stick.
 
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