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240v Baseboard Heater to Standard Outlets (w/ Temperature Control)

240v Baseboard Heater to Standard Outlets (w/ Temperature Control)

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  #1  
Old 07-10-11, 11:50 AM
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Question 240v Baseboard Heater to Standard Outlets (w/ Temperature Control)

Hello there,

First time poster here. I have searched the forum and read between 15 and 20 great threads on this topic, but they all seem to be slightly different than mine, and I just want to clarify a few things.

First off, I understand the safety concerns when working with electrical. I understand wiring and electricity, current, etc.

What I don't understand is exactly how breakers work and how the temperature control for the baseboard heaters works.

The Setup:
In the breaker box, there are 2 breakers of interest to this situation, they are both two in one breakers (No, I'm not great with the terminology

15A - 240V - Furnace
15A - 240V - Baseboard Heaters --|
| - these two fuses join by a 'pin'
15A - 120V/240V - Baseboard Heaters --|
15A - 120V/240V - Master Bedroom and Dining Room


Then, in the wall halfway across the basement is a thermostat with two wires (one red, one black). I presume that behind the box this wire is bridging the positive wire for both baseboard heaters.

Then, I have two baseboard heaters. They are on opposite sides of the basement and I believe the wiring is split to each one right behind the thermostat.

The Question:

I want to get rid of these. I already removed one and have the wires stripped and capped at the wall. I have confirmed that there is 240V coming to those wires when the breaker is on (I leave it off these days). I want to know the easiest way to convert one or both of these to 120V wall recepticles.

Can I just make the change at the breaker box or do I have to do anymore more advanced?
Because the one breaker says it is only rated for 240V, does that mean that one would have to be changed to an optional 120V like the other one in order for this to work?

Thanks in advance!
 
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  #2  
Old 07-10-11, 12:02 PM
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Canada uses a 240v cable with no white wire. Someone with knowledge of the CEC will have to comment on if one of the wires can be re-designated.
 
  #3  
Old 07-10-11, 12:11 PM
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Originally Posted by ray2047 View Post
Canada uses a 240v cable with no white wire. Someone with knowledge of the CEC will have to comment on if one of the wires can be re-designated.
This is correct. The baseboard heaters only have a black and red cable, and then a single, uninsulated copper wire happens to be with them - I don't know if that is just for cable shaping though?
 
  #4  
Old 07-10-11, 12:14 PM
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Originally Posted by pookk View Post
I think u can run 220v rads on 110 with proper wiring?
I'm not sure how this is relevant, but it might be true!
I'm fairly certain that I have 240V wiring though, and I already have the baseboard heaters.
I want to get rid of them. So essentially I want the opposite of what you are suggesting:

120V outlets on 240V wiring.
 
  #5  
Old 07-10-11, 01:22 PM
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I am not an expert on electrical, but I will try to explain some things the way that I understand them. Hopefully I am not completely out of line. Electricity travels in a wave. Inside your breaker panel, you have two hot buses. The waves between those two buses are 180 degrees apart. When you measure the peak on one bus, the other bus is at a trough. That gives you a measurement of 240v because each bus is 120v when compared to ground. When you see a 240v breaker, aka 2 pole breaker, it connects one hot wire from your circuit to one bus and the other hot to the other bus. Now the concern here is not that you can't physically convert your 240v circuits to two 120v circuits for outlets, but if it would be allowed by code because of the color of the wires. It needs to be found out if it is legal for you to relabel your red wire with white electrical tape. This way if someone years down the line works on that circuit, they know exactly what they are dealing with.
 
  #6  
Old 07-10-11, 02:25 PM
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If I do recalled one of the Canadian electrician whom he is my freind and I did ask him that question some time back and he say no you can not remarked { that is specficed in Ontrio Proviance Codé } and I know Québec do not allow to do that anyway.

So the best answer is run a new NM cable with proper colour cable and sizing as well.

The USA side can allow to remark the white conductor for other purpose only with NM or UF cable if run in indivual conductors then therefore it is not legit at all unless it is bigger than 16mm² { #6AWG or larger }

The French codé is pretty simauir to USA side { but very limited on this }

Merci,
Marc
 
  #7  
Old 07-11-11, 08:20 AM
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This is unfortunate.
It will be difficult to run that cable, to say the least.

If it is confirmed that I cannot reuse and relabel these wires, than I guess that's the unfortunate reality. I will have to cap the wires and give up on this project, unless someone has an idea that doesn't involve running new cable. (Long story, but I cannot remove the wall panels to get behind them, so I cannot simply run another cable - unless there is a magical trick to this)
 
  #8  
Old 07-11-11, 10:59 AM
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Originally Posted by pookk View Post
Your code inspector has the last word & can be very informative
This is going to sound stupid... but who exactly is a code inspector? Does any electrician qualify to make the inspection?

What happens if the electrician comes to my house and finds that nearby wiring is not up to code - is he obligated to report, refuse work or fix the situation?
 
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Old 07-11-11, 11:10 AM
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This is going to sound stupid... but who exactly is a code inspector? Does any electrician qualify to make the inspection?
No. In most places he works for the local government department that issues permits for work. You file for a permit then they come out when you finish the work and inspect it. In your case a permit may not be required but you could still call the code enforcement office and ask to discuss it with an inspector.
 
  #10  
Old 07-11-11, 11:26 AM
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Unless he sees an imminent threat to safety (bare wires, sparking, fire hazard, electrocution hazard, etc) the inspector will only look at the work which is specified on the permit paperwork. The rest of the existing wiring is grandfathered to the code that was in force the year it was originally installed.

In most areas the inspector works for the local government, but in some places you need to hire the inspector privately (from an approved government list). If you are in a rural area the inspector is usually a local electrician who works a few hours per week as the town inspector.
 
  #11  
Old 07-11-11, 11:28 AM
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Originally Posted by ray2047 View Post
No. In most places he works for the local government department that issues permits for work. You file for a permit then they come out when you finish the work and inspect it. In your case a permit may not be required but you could still call the code enforcement office and ask to discuss it with an inspector.
Thanks! I may have to look into that then.
I appreciate the responses so far and will appreciate any other information that comes in, as I am attempting to grasp all the necessary information here.
 
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