least expensive way......

Reply

  #1  
Old 08-04-11, 09:50 AM
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: xxx
Posts: 310
least expensive way......

What is the best and least expensive way to run 110v (3 wire; 2 hots and a ground) across 200' or so of open yard. I'd like to run it buried. Not sure the best way of doing that.

Just a light on in the garage I'd run it to. Maybe weedwhacker.
 
Sponsored Links
  #2  
Old 08-04-11, 09:57 AM
Forum Topic Moderator
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Near Lansing, Michigan
Posts: 10,295
Are you running to an outbuilding or just a post in the yard?
 
  #3  
Old 08-04-11, 11:38 AM
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: xxx
Posts: 310
I'm putting up a garage for a couple of mowers. 12'x12', on stilts.
 
  #4  
Old 08-04-11, 11:58 AM
Forum Topic Moderator
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Near Lansing, Michigan
Posts: 10,295
I'd go with a new 20A breaker in the main panel. From that run 12-2/g UF-B cable to the garage buried 24" deep. Use conduit sleeves entering and exiting the ground. At the garage you need a disconnect switch, a switched overhead light inside the shed and a GFCI receptacle. If you consider this a "garage" you also need an exterior light at every grade-level human door.

An alternate plan if you don't want to dig so deep is to use a GFCI breaker instead of a standard breaker and burial depth can be reduced to 12", but it adds some cost to the project (+$30).
 
  #5  
Old 08-04-11, 12:05 PM
Justin Smith's Avatar
Member
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Cressona, Pa, USA
Posts: 2,546
I would go 10/2 uf with a 20A GFCI breaker, buried 12'' deep with a 20A switch as a disconnect, and a receptacle and a switched light.
 
  #6  
Old 08-04-11, 12:08 PM
Gunguy45's Avatar
Super Moderator
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: USA
Posts: 20,859
I'd just like to say...there's cheap....then there's easy and pretty cheap. A trencher will do that in less than an hour I'm sure. Hand digging even 12" x 100' wouldn't be on my list of favorite things.
 
  #7  
Old 08-04-11, 12:25 PM
ray2047's Avatar
Group Moderator
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: USA
Posts: 32,646
Since it is 200' Justin's suggestion would be something to consider. It depends on the amps you use. More amps the more the voltage drop. The voltage drop affects motors more then lights. Lights would just dim but the life of motors could be shortened and they might have trouble starting.
 
  #8  
Old 08-04-11, 06:55 PM
Tolyn Ironhand's Avatar
Group Moderator
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Twin Cities, MN
Posts: 11,981
Originally Posted by rbig View Post
What is the best and least expensive way to run 110v (3 wire; 2 hots and a ground).
1 - 120 volt circuit would use one hot, one neutral and one ground. You would use two hots, one neutral and a ground if you wanted 120/240 volts to your shed.

If your on 2011 code you are required to provide at least one 120v receptacle at the shed.
 
  #9  
Old 08-05-11, 08:02 AM
Member
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: USA
Posts: 1,147
Originally Posted by rbig View Post

Just a light on in the garage I'd run it to. Maybe weedwhacker.
I can't tell you the number of times I've had to retrench to add a circuit or capacity to an existing buried UF cable. If this is going to a "building", even a small building, put the conductors in pvc conduit. 3/4 or 1" in your case. The digging is the big deal here, not the material. I'd start with a black, a white, and a green THHN 10 awg. Now, you can upgrade if necessary in the future with zero digging. 200' of hand digging is non-trivial. Consider renting that trencher.
ib lists your cheap option, I'll suggest mine as the "best" if long term labor is at all an issue!
 
  #10  
Old 08-05-11, 08:44 AM
pcboss's Avatar
Forum Topic Moderator
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: Maryland
Posts: 14,357
Originally Posted by Tolyn Ironhand View Post
If your on 2011 code you are required to provide at least one 120v receptacle at the shed.
Scott, this only applies if there is power to shed correct? You are not required to have electric at the shed the way I understand this.
 
  #11  
Old 08-05-11, 08:51 AM
Tolyn Ironhand's Avatar
Group Moderator
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Twin Cities, MN
Posts: 11,981
Originally Posted by pcboss View Post
Scott, this only applies if there is power to shed correct? You are not required to have electric at the shed the way I understand this.
Correct. There is no requirement that you must have power to a shed/building. But, if you do run power to a shed or building, even if it just for lights, you are required to install at least one, GFCI protected, 120 volt receptacle. This is new for 2011 code.
 
  #12  
Old 08-05-11, 08:58 AM
Forum Topic Moderator
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Near Lansing, Michigan
Posts: 10,295
That's the way I understand it too. Electric is not required in detached outbuildings, but if it is installed you need at least one receptacle, one overhead light and a porch light.
 
  #13  
Old 08-05-11, 09:21 AM
Member
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Southeastern Pennsylvania
Posts: 2,533
Originally Posted by Gunguy45 View Post
I'd just like to say...there's cheap....then there's easy and pretty cheap. A trencher will do that in less than an hour I'm sure. Hand digging even 12" x 100' wouldn't be on my list of favorite things.
How do the trenchers work. I always wondered what happens if you hit rocks.
 
  #14  
Old 08-05-11, 09:46 AM
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: xxx
Posts: 310
What is the correct designation of Romex cable: you can bury it, 2 conductors and 1 ground, 12AWG
 
  #15  
Old 08-05-11, 09:54 AM
pcboss's Avatar
Forum Topic Moderator
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: Maryland
Posts: 14,357
Type NM-B cable, commonly called Romex cannot be buried or used outdoors. Type UF cable can be used outdoors or buried.

Trenchers work like a large chainsaw. The rock either breaks or is pulled out of the ground. Rocks that are too large will not allow the trencher to defeat them.
 
  #16  
Old 08-05-11, 10:02 AM
Forum Topic Moderator
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Near Lansing, Michigan
Posts: 10,295
Originally Posted by zoesdad View Post
How do the trenchers work. I always wondered what happens if you hit rocks.
Small rocks it will grind on them for a little bit and eventually get them out. Big rocks you'll either have to stop and dig out by hand or back up and detour around with the trencher.

Originally Posted by rbig
What is the correct designation of Romex cable: you can bury it, 2 conductors and 1 ground, 12AWG
Romex is a brand name and they make many types of cable.

The typical residential cable is called Nonmetallic Cable (NM-B) and is usually white or yellow PVC jacket with paper wrappings inside the jacket. This type of cable is for indoor use only.

The outdoor underground cable is called Underground Feeder (UF-B) and has a thick plastic coating, often grey. This type of cable can be buried and used in other outdoor situations.

In either case, it is designated with a gauge and number of insulated conductors. 12-2/g cable is size 12 AWG, has two insulated conductors (black + white), and one bare ground. All modern NM or UF cables include the bare ground, but in the past the bare ground was optional so the /g is sometimes still written and sometimes not.
 
  #17  
Old 08-05-11, 10:10 AM
Gunguy45's Avatar
Super Moderator
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: USA
Posts: 20,859
Think you'd ask for 12/2 UF. Romex is a generic term...and really only applies to stuff used in the walls of a house or similar. Not sure where it really came from?

zoesdad....kinda depends. Most of them are sort of like a giant slow moving chainsaw blade...maybe an inch or 2 wide? Bigger ones are like a mini bucket dredge (I think thats what I mean...the type you might see loading coal?)...but not really a homeowner rental item. Then they also have a vibratory type that leaves very little damage to lawns. You see them quite a bit for sprinkler and cable companies....they just push the cable or hose down into a slit and feed it out as they move.

Small rocks just get dug out or pushed aside.....bigger ones require rerouting of the trench or hand digging the rock out. Thats whats nice about the trencher...hit a boulder and it only takes a few minutes to go around it. Most of them will cut through roots (though that may hurt the tree)...but the vibratory doesn't like them much unless they are pretty small.
 
  #18  
Old 08-05-11, 10:12 AM
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: xxx
Posts: 310
Many thanks to all who've helped me here!!! I've now got the basic tools I need to do it.

And yes, I'll definitely rent a trencher when the time comes!!!.
 
  #19  
Old 08-05-11, 10:37 AM
Member
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Wet side of Washington state.
Posts: 18,368
Romex is a generic term...and really only applies to stuff used in the walls of a house or similar. Not sure where it really came from?
As ibpooks stated, Romex is a BRAND name and was made by the Rome Wire Company which is now owned by Southwire. Romex® - Southwire: The Official Home of Romex® Wire It burns me up to see so many people (usually lay people) use the word Romex generically.
 
  #20  
Old 08-05-11, 10:41 AM
Group Moderator
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: WI/MN
Posts: 18,516
Kleenex, Band-Aid,... I'm guilty - I say 'Romex' when I mean 'NM-B'
 
  #21  
Old 08-05-11, 11:32 AM
Gunguy45's Avatar
Super Moderator
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: USA
Posts: 20,859
Hey Furd....what? Do you work for them...lol. j/k!

I think almost everyone who does wiring refers to it as "romex".....even though its a brand name. Unless its spec'd out in a quote/design somehow...
 
  #22  
Old 08-05-11, 11:41 AM
ray2047's Avatar
Group Moderator
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: USA
Posts: 32,646
I do use Romex sometimes and often Sheetrock because those are terms the newbies are most familiar with. I use to write "2-conductor" or "3-conductor" cable till I replied to a person who didn't understand what a conductor was so now I mostly write 2-wire or 3-wire and add "(plus ground)". After all we are here to help not confuse but I refuse to write cement driveway or hot water heater.
 
  #23  
Old 08-05-11, 11:54 AM
Group Moderator
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: WI/MN
Posts: 18,516
Yeah, that's definitely grey area, as sometimes being correct can make you less clear. It's also tough to know when to correct someone that they probably have a vinyl floor in their new house, not linoleum....
 
  #24  
Old 08-05-11, 01:23 PM
ray2047's Avatar
Group Moderator
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: USA
Posts: 32,646
a vinyl floor in their new house, not linoleum..
Yes, another where you just grit your teeth. But then again just a few weeks ago we had a member installing a product with Linoleum in its name.Never checked to see if it really was.
 
  #25  
Old 08-05-11, 05:53 PM
Member
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Southeastern Pennsylvania
Posts: 2,533
Originally Posted by pcboss View Post
… Trenchers work like a large chainsaw. The rock either breaks or is pulled out of the ground. Rocks that are too large will not allow the trencher to defeat them.
Originally Posted by ibpooks View Post
Small rocks it will grind on them for a little bit and eventually get them out. Big rocks you'll either have to stop and dig out by hand or back up and detour around with the trencher.
...
Originally Posted by Gunguy45 View Post
….
zoesdad....kinda depends. Most of them are sort of like a giant slow moving chainsaw blade...maybe an inch or 2 wide? Bigger ones are like a mini bucket dredge (I think thats what I mean...the type you might see loading coal?)...but not really a homeowner rental item. Then they also have a vibratory type that leaves very little damage to lawns. You see them quite a bit for sprinkler and cable companies....they just push the cable or hose down into a slit and feed it out as they move.

Small rocks just get dug out or pushed aside.....bigger ones require rerouting of the trench or hand digging the rock out. Thats whats nice about the trencher...hit a boulder and it only takes a few minutes to go around it. Most of them will cut through roots (though that may hurt the tree)...but the vibratory doesn't like them much unless they are pretty small.
Thanks a lot for all the really good information guys. Won’t be afraid to rent one in the future.
 
Reply

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Thread Tools
Search this Thread
Display Modes
'