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Generac Model # 6052 14 KW Generator with 200 SE ATS- Low voltage wire question

Generac Model # 6052 14 KW Generator with 200 SE ATS- Low voltage wire question

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  #1  
Old 08-14-11, 09:51 AM
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Generac Model # 6052 14 KW Generator with 200 SE ATS- Low voltage wire question

Electrician stated in his quote he needed to run a Low Voltage wire from Transfer switch to AC condensing unit: Exact words:

INSTALL LOW VOLTAGE WIRING FROM THE TRANSFER SWITCH TO THE A/C CONDENSING UNITS TO LOCK
OUT THE A/C CONDENSERS ON GENERATOR START-UP.

I'm finishing my basement and wanted to run the wire myself. Can i use Thermostat wire 18/2? Its a 200amp service. Also, do I need to put it in metal conduit? Chicagoland area requires electrical to run in metal conduit. Low voltage I"m unsure of. Any help would be appreciated.
 
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  #2  
Old 08-14-11, 01:05 PM
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I don't understand why this needs to be done. All newer AC units have a built in timer to prevent the compressor from restarting too quickly, it's usually around 10 minutes. Since the AC unit would shutdown during a power failure the timer would prevent it from restarting during the generator startup.
 
  #3  
Old 08-14-11, 02:47 PM
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The load doesn't transfer till after the generator is started and up to proper voltage. That process usually takes from 15 to 30 seconds depending on the generator and transfer switch. Most likely, either the unit or thermostat has delay protection already, but it never hurts to find out for sure.
 
  #4  
Old 08-14-11, 03:21 PM
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It seems its part of the DLM technology of the smartswith. You have the Nexus switch correct?

Here is what the Genarac site says.

1. By monitoring generator engine performance, the Nexus Smart Switch is able to identify when the generator approaches overload. At the appropriate time, the switch disconnects the highest electrical load(s) in the house, typically an air conditioner(s).

2. After a 5-minute delay to allow for compressor bleed out, the switch brings the AC units back online one after the other with a 30-second delay in between. This is a standard capability in all Nexus Smart Switches and does not require any additional components, unlike competitive transfer switches.

3. In addition, up to four other large 240V loads can be managed when the Nexus Smart Switch is used in conjunction with individual DLM™ modules.


Generac Power Systems -Nexus Smart Switch

I am not a electrician but only looked up the info cause I was curious.

Mike NJ
 
  #5  
Old 08-14-11, 04:32 PM
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Originally Posted by lawrosa View Post
It seems its part of the DLM technology of the smartswith. You have the Nexus switch correct?

Here is what the Genarac site says.

1. By monitoring generator engine performance, the Nexus Smart Switch is able to identify when the generator approaches overload. At the appropriate time, the switch disconnects the highest electrical load(s) in the house, typically an air conditioner(s).

2. After a 5-minute delay to allow for compressor bleed out, the switch brings the AC units back online one after the other with a 30-second delay in between. This is a standard capability in all Nexus Smart Switches and does not require any additional components, unlike competitive transfer switches.

3. In addition, up to four other large 240V loads can be managed when the Nexus Smart Switch is used in conjunction with individual DLM™ modules.


Generac Power Systems -Nexus Smart Switch

I am not a electrician but only looked up the info cause I was curious.

Mike NJ
That makes a lot more sense than what the electrician wrote on the quote. It makes perfect sense for low shedding but not for startup. If that's an indication of the electricians knowledge maybe the OP should look for somebody else to do the installation.
 
  #6  
Old 08-14-11, 04:45 PM
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That makes a lot more sense than what the electrician wrote on the quote. It makes perfect sense for low shedding but not for startup. If that's an indication of the electricians knowledge maybe the OP should look for somebody else to do the installation.
Yeah it would seem the electrician knows he needs to wire it but has no clue what it does.

Mike NJ
 
  #7  
Old 08-15-11, 05:20 PM
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INSTALL LOW VOLTAGE WIRING FROM THE TRANSFER SWITCH TO THE A/C CONDENSING UNITS TO LOCK
OUT THE A/C CONDENSERS ON GENERATOR START-UP.
Actually, the verbage sounds more like the condensing unit would be locked out completely and kept from running whenever on backup generator power. On a generator as small as 14 KW, that might be important.
 
  #8  
Old 08-15-11, 05:47 PM
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Originally Posted by CasualJoe View Post
....On a generator as small as 14 KW, that might be important.
A 10KW has no problem running any reasonable size of residential AC unit assuming the other loads also are nothing unusual. Besides if that was the case you would just not put the AC unit on the transfer switch!
 
  #9  
Old 08-15-11, 05:55 PM
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Actually, the verbage sounds more like the condensing unit would be locked out completely and kept from running whenever on backup generator power. On a generator as small as 14 KW, that might be important.
Most houses in my area that are on their own transformer are only fed by a 10kva one. The transformer that fed the last house I lived in was 15kva and fed 5 all-electric houses.
 

Last edited by Justin Smith; 08-15-11 at 05:56 PM. Reason: fix quote
  #10  
Old 08-15-11, 06:23 PM
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Originally Posted by Msradell View Post
A 10KW has no problem running any reasonable size of residential AC unit assuming the other loads also are nothing unusual. Besides if that was the case you would just not put the AC unit on the transfer switch!
It's a 200 amp service entrance rated transfer switch. I am assuming it would be connected at the service entrance and would be backing up a 200 amp service, there is no leaving off large loads when the whole service is backed up. We have no way of knowing the size of the A-C unit or current required to start it or what other electric appliances may be in the home, but we do know that the output breaker on the generator is somewhere near 60 amps. We also know the electrician who most likely designed the system is intending to lock out the condensing units when the generator starts (notice in the OP where it says "condensers", there may be more than one A-C unit). It's entirely possible the generator will not support the A-C unit or units along with other loads in the home.
 

Last edited by CasualJoe; 08-15-11 at 06:47 PM.
  #11  
Old 08-15-11, 06:29 PM
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Originally Posted by CasualJoe View Post
It's a 200 amp service entrance rated transfer switch. I am assuming it would be connected at the service entrance and would be backing up a 200 amp service, there is no leaving off large loads when the whole service is backed up. We have no way of knowing the size of the A-C unit or current required to start it or what other electric appliances may be in the home, but we do know that the output breaker on the generator is somewhere near 60 amps. It's entirely possible the generator will not support the A-C unit along with other loads in the home.
If it's truly the case then the OP should definitely go find another electrician! If that's what he's going to do he quite possibly could kill the generator very quickly or damage other equipment in the house because of low voltage. He obviously doesn't have any idea how to install a generator system if he's going to allow the possibility of a generator trying to handle a much larger load than it's capable of.
 
  #12  
Old 08-15-11, 06:54 PM
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If it's truly the case then the OP should definitely go find another electrician! If that's what he's going to do he quite possibly could kill the generator very quickly or damage other equipment in the house because of low voltage. He obviously doesn't have any idea how to install a generator system if he's going to allow the possibility of a generator trying to handle a much larger load than it's capable of.
Not necessarily, maybe that's what the homeowner asked for and maybe the A-C units are not that importnat if the power is out. He could be designing exactly what was asked for and could be trying to stay within their budget. At this point there is a lot we don't know as the OP hasn't been back since his original post.
 
  #13  
Old 08-15-11, 07:24 PM
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The genaracs come with the nexus smart transfer switch. Any of you guys familiar with them????

It seems its part of the DLM technology of the smartswith. You have the Nexus switch correct?

Here is what the Genarac site says.

1. By monitoring generator engine performance, the Nexus Smart Switch is able to identify when the generator approaches overload. At the appropriate time, the switch disconnects the highest electrical load(s) in the house, typically an air conditioner(s).

2. After a 5-minute delay to allow for compressor bleed out, the switch brings the AC units back online one after the other with a 30-second delay in between. This is a standard capability in all Nexus Smart Switches and does not require any additional components, unlike competitive transfer switches.

3. In addition, up to four other large 240V loads can be managed when the Nexus Smart Switch is used in conjunction with individual DLM™ modules.


Generac Power Systems -Nexus Smart Switch

I am not a electrician but only looked up the info cause I was curious.

Mike NJ
 
  #14  
Old 08-15-11, 09:44 PM
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Mike .,

I have see couple of them allready { both Americian and belive or not European specs }

What they will do is they will sense the X number of circuit to active and they will have small CT { current transfomer } to check the current drawage when it get too much it will force one or two high load off the generator until the X number of wattage is avabile then it may come back on.

I have done couple of them and what I do when you have large tank water heater { electrique verison } or multi A/C units I will ask the customer which unit is circital if need cooling mode in multi units and what I do is make a interlock programe so it will ramp up in sequince depending on the load shreadding transfer switch set up.

Typically a 10- 14 KW unit will handle a single 3 or 4 tonne A/C unit when other loads is very light but once you have larger than 4 tonne A/C then we will put a interlock to prevent the A/C unit kick on or have the A/C compressour on uility side not on generatour side.

For multi A/C units I will only use one with 10 to 14 KW size but for larger generators it may handle more depending on KW rating and the type of Transfer switch Manual verison is not bad but Automatique verison can get tricky if not heeded with generator rating.

I will dig up little more details later with this model due there are couple verison I have to dealt with it.

Merci,
Marc
 
  #15  
Old 11-14-11, 10:41 AM
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Line voltage vs.low voltage?

Am I missing something here? To properly shut down an A/C or heat pump dont you need to control the unit via the low voltage controls as opposed to just breaking the line voltage? Ouch.

Is it possible to use the smart switch using the low voltage side?
 
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