Wire size for deck circut

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  #1  
Old 08-18-11, 10:10 PM
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Wire size for deck circut

I am getting ready to pull wire for my deck general use receptacles and was wondering what gauge wire I need. I am running from a 20 amp GFCI breaker and the run to the first outlet will be around 70' and the total run will be around 120'. From what I can tell I can use 12 gauge for about 80' but I would need 10 gauge for the 120'. Am I looking at this correctly? If so, can I run 10 gauge from the breaker to the first outlet and then change to 12 gauge for the rest of the run? I know they say not to change gauge on the same circuit but I didn't know if this situation would be allowed since 12 gauge is the minimum size for a 20 amp circuit.

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Old 08-18-11, 10:42 PM
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I would do 10/2* for the first portion and then switch to 12/2* for the second portion.

All receptacles need to be listed weather resistant, be in an approved box, with a bubble cover.

* For the outside sections you must switch to either Type UF cable or THHN/THWN in conduit. All areas subject to physical damage must be protected by conduit.
 
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Old 08-19-11, 04:28 AM
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What sort of load do you anticipate on the receptacles on the deck? You may be able to save quite a bit of cabling and headache if you figure the load on your exterior GFCI receptacles close by, and if small enough, tap off one of them with conduit to the deck location. I can't imagine a terribly large load on a deck. Running a separate circuit may be a little overkill (especially 120'), unless the load dictates it.
 
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Old 08-19-11, 06:03 AM
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As Chandler posted, for general purpose receptacles #12 is fine.
 
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Old 08-19-11, 06:31 AM
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There are no exterior GFCI receptacles close by. The only exterior receptacle is even farther away. I will be using it the circuit for a radio, maybe laptop and a few strings of party lights and some low voltage deck lights. It will also be used to power a low voltage pool light that has a built in transformer and plug that hangs over the side of the pool.
 
  #6  
Old 08-19-11, 09:49 AM
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Size wire for a pool pump

I am going to be running wire in conduit out to an above ground pool pump. The run will be around 90'. The pump is 2hp, 110 volt max amps is 16. It will be on a 20 amp dedicated GFCI. Will 12 gauge wire be ok for this length of run?
 
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Old 08-19-11, 10:18 AM
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Make sure your receptacles at no closer than 10' from the rim of the pool.
 
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Old 08-19-11, 10:23 AM
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None of the recepticales will be closer then 10' to the pool. I already found that in my research.

Thanks.
 
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Old 08-19-11, 10:23 AM
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Two related threads merged. From second thread:
I am going to be running wire in conduit out to an above ground pool pump. The run will be around 90'. The pump is 2hp, 110 volt max amps is 16. It will be on a 20 amp dedicated GFCI. Will 12 gauge wire be ok for this length of run?
Actually it is 120v nominal voltage on a single phase residential supply. At 90 feet you would have a voltage drop to 114v which is acceptable. You will need to use an insulated green ground wire and use either a GFCI receptacle or a GFCI breaker. Burial depth if GFCI receptacle is minimum 18". One foot if GFCI breaker.

Edit: Post was made before I was aware there would be deck receptacles involved.
 

Last edited by ray2047; 08-19-11 at 10:56 AM.
  #10  
Old 08-19-11, 10:31 AM
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Great. That will save some money. I will have a GFCI breaker and the condut is baried at 18" up to the pool deck. I will run the codut under the deck for the rest of the run. I am planning on running a 12 gauge ground wire that will be shared the first part of the run from the house to the deck where the two circutes will split. One for the pump and one for the deck recepticals.

One more question on length of the run for the pump. I am planning on splitting the conduit into two runs once I reach the deck, one for the deck receptical and one for the pump. I am doing this to limit the run for the pump. If I only do one conduit run along the outside of the deck the pool pump run would be around 120'. Would this be to long to use 12 guage wire?
 
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Old 08-19-11, 10:43 AM
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If I only do one conduit run along the outside of the deck the pool pump run would be around 120'. Would this be to long to use 12 guage wire?
Border line possibly depending on the deck load. In my first response it was for pump only. A bit of over kill probably but I'd go #10 to the deck and then continue #12 to the pump. You might also consider a multi wire branch circuit to the deck but that would require a 2-pole (240v) breaker and four #12 wires.
 

Last edited by ray2047; 08-19-11 at 11:04 AM.
  #12  
Old 08-19-11, 11:40 AM
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ray2047:
I think I confused you. I am going to run two seperate circuts from the breaker panel to the deck. One will be for the deck and one for the pool pump. I am planning on sharing the green insulated ground wire from the panel up to the point were I split the two circuts into sepreate condut runs. One option is to run one condut line from the house to the deck and then split into two seperate condut runs, one around outside of deck and one straight to the pump. This would give about 120' total run for the deck circut and 90' for the pump circut. The second option is to keep both circuts in one conduit run around the deck. This would increase the run for the pool pump to around 120'-130'. I will have two 20 amp GFCI breakers, one for each circut.
 
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Old 08-19-11, 12:11 PM
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I would use the routing option that makes the run to the pump the shortest. I would also use all #12. The distances are not significant enough to upsize conductors in my opinion, although there is no prohibition on upsizing if you want to. If you do upsize the hots, the ground must also be upsized to match. There is no rule against mixing #10 and #12 on the circuit as long as the breaker does not exceed 20A if that is the option you choose.
 
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Old 08-19-11, 01:19 PM
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I will have two 20 amp GFCI breakers, one for each circut.... I am planning on sharing the green insulated ground wire from the panel up to the point were I split the two circuts into sepreate condut runs..
Since you were going to use two breakers anyway if you use a 240v breaker you would only need to run four wires not five to the point where it splits off. Might save you a few bucks. You would use two hots a neutral and a ground. Of course it might be cheaper to use a regular breaker then a 240v GFCI breaker and use a GFCI receptacle as the first receptacle after the split on each circuit.

Your way though is fine and easier to understand. I tend to over complicate things.
 
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Old 08-19-11, 03:29 PM
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I am going to split the pump and deck circut when it reaches the deck to keep the distance for the pump the shortest and stick with #12 wire. Thanks for the help.
 
  #16  
Old 08-19-11, 08:47 PM
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Is this deck attatched or detached from your house?
If it's detatched, you will pretty much be forced to use a MWBC and a double pole gfi breaker. Or a sub.
 
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Old 08-19-11, 09:20 PM
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Originally Posted by Justin Smith View Post
Is this deck attatched or detached from your house?
If it's detatched, you will pretty much be forced to use a MWBC and a double pole gfi breaker. Or a sub.
The deck probably wouldn't be considered a structure* but even if it was the pool is a separate location and not part of the deck so no code violation of multiple power sources in a detached structure.

*NEC defines structure as:
Structure. That which is built or constructed.
Admittedly that is vague at best. Maybe I'm wrong.
 
  #18  
Old 08-19-11, 09:37 PM
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I always considered anything not connected to another structure a seperate structure, and IMO, even a post in the ground is a structure.
 
  #19  
Old 08-20-11, 04:44 AM
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Justin, I remember a long time ago a friend was having an insurance problem with rates on "attached" versus "unattached" garage. The garage was about 4' from his house and set back slightly. He just tied the eaves together with a 2x4. Voila! the garage was now attached! He got away with it. A long lag bolt from the free standing deck to the house ledger may constitute an "attached" deck......who knows. Think on these things.
 
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Old 08-22-11, 01:02 PM
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The deck is seperate from the house.
 
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Old 08-22-11, 01:44 PM
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The deck is seperate from the house
If there is no way to connect the two together, then you will either need to use a multiwire circut or a subpanel.
 
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Old 08-22-11, 02:13 PM
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Originally Posted by Justin Smith View Post
If there is no way to connect the two together, then you will either need to use a multiwire circut or a subpanel.
No, the J&P box at the deck, even if it contains a fixture, is NOT a termination point of the second (pool pump) circuit but ONLY an access point in the conduit run. This means that the receptacle at the deck is a single circuit going to the deck and the circuit going to the pool pump is also a single circuit going to the pump.
 
  #23  
Old 08-30-11, 01:51 PM
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Thanks for the help. I have run the conduit from the house to the split point and the rest of the conduit to the pool pump. I am working on the conduit for the deck.

One more question, is there a requirement for how high the receptacles need to be above the deck?
 
  #24  
Old 08-30-11, 01:56 PM
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No requirement............................
 
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