Telecom Guy: Old Fuse Circuit

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Old 08-21-11, 11:12 AM
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Telecom Guy: Old Fuse Circuit

Originally Posted by CasualJoe View Post
For clarification, dryers have never been allowed to run on 10-2 romex. Before the 4 wire (10-3/G romex) requirement, correctly wired dryers were wired with 10-3 plain romex (no ground conductor). The grounding was done through the insulated white neutral conductor. It has never been acceptable to use the bare ground conductor in romex as a current carrying conductor although it was sometimes done. All romex comes with a grounding conductor today.
Joe; Thanks for that. And, let me ask this. I recently ran into a mid 50's home with emt going to the garage for the dryer and more. Fed from two edison base fuses, two white hot lines, one yellow neutral. One leg also fed the washing machine, and then the bath. So, you have a pull chain vanity lamp fed from one of the 30 amp screw fuses. Was this NEC ok at the time?
 
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Old 08-21-11, 11:52 AM
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I doubt that the pullchain light on a 30 amp circuit was ever OK code-wise. General purpose circuits have had a 20 amp limit for as long as I know.
 
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Old 08-21-11, 01:42 PM
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I have seen a lot of questionable setups that had been in place and worked for 40 or more years. I always say, just because it works doesn't mean it's right. The NEC is for safety; just because no one gets hurt doesn't mean they couldn't.
 
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Old 08-21-11, 03:14 PM
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Once saw wiring for a doorbell button re-purposed for a 120v porch light. And as I looked at this the proud mother was bragging how smart her son was to do that. Gosh knows how long it had worked like that. Gosh knows if too large a light bulb will someday start a fire.
 
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Old 08-21-11, 03:49 PM
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That's either a low porch light or was high door bell button.
 
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Old 08-21-11, 04:13 PM
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Originally Posted by drooplug View Post
That's either a low porch light or was high door bell button.
The original installer left enough slack to just pull it out and up the wall. That's how I was sure what the light was wired with.
 
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Old 08-21-11, 04:16 PM
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I sure hope noone uses a socket adapter in that light as 22AWG is only good for 3A
 
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Old 08-21-11, 04:26 PM
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Joe; Thanks for that. And, let me ask this. I recently ran into a mid 50's home with emt going to the garage for the dryer and more. Fed from two edison base fuses, two white hot lines, one yellow neutral. One leg also fed the washing machine, and then the bath. So, you have a pull chain vanity lamp fed from one of the 30 amp screw fuses. Was this NEC ok at the time?
Was white ever permitted for hot wires or the neutral to be yellow?

30A fusesw were NEVER permitted for gen prpse receptacles.

I don't think edison base fuses were permitted to be "ganged up" fro 240V loads, either.r.
 
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Old 08-21-11, 05:23 PM
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Originally Posted by CasualJoe View Post
I have seen a lot of questionable setups that had been in place and worked for 40 or more years. I always say, just because it works doesn't mean it's right. The NEC is for safety; just because no one gets hurt doesn't mean they couldn't.
Totally agree
 
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Old 08-21-11, 05:26 PM
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Originally Posted by Justin Smith View Post

I don't think edison base fuses were permitted to be "ganged up" fro 240V loads, either.r
Agree, that is pretty bad. Both the water heater and dryer ckt had "dual" screw fuses. What makes that really bad is that the outside shell of the fuse stays HOT even when it is half removed, being fed from the other line.
 
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Old 08-21-11, 05:59 PM
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I don't think edison base fuses were permitted to be "ganged up" fro 240V loads, either.r.
If you could go back 40 or 50 years to a rural area you'd be hard pressed to find a fuse box that didn't have this. The old fuse boxes generally had a pullout for the range and that was it. Where do you suppose the water heater ended up?
 
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Old 08-21-11, 06:04 PM
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Yep...the main and the range. Wait a minute...they had water heaters back then??
 
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Old 08-21-11, 06:14 PM
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Once lived in a garage apartment with a one fuse disconnect. Some one had added a circuit by wiring a pigtail Edison lamp holder into the box on the hot side. The really scary part though it was on the line side of the disconnect. I suspect some of us could trade stories all night. {LOL}
 
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Old 08-21-11, 07:33 PM
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I suspect some of us could trade stories all night. {LOL}
Hm... Electrical chat forum?
If you could go back 40 or 50 years to a rural area you'd be hard pressed to find a fuse box that didn't have this. The old fuse boxes generally had a pullout for the range and that was it. Where do you suppose the water heater ended up?
I lived in an apartment in Orwigsburg where the 240V a/c was connected by doubble-lugging off the range. About 3' into the run, there was a fused disco. The scary part was the ground was tied to the neutral lug instead of the box.
This was in town, where if a fire started, It would destroy about 10 buildings, some with historical value.
 
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Old 08-21-11, 09:59 PM
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This will address multi members as I will go down the list.,

Joe ., for the old electrique waterheater with old style fuse box which we call 4 plus 2 which it mean 4 plug fuse and two cartage fuse holders so therefore to hook up the eletricque water heater there is a take off lugs between #2 et #3 also #3 et #4 plug fuse which they will have take off lug to tie in either electrique dryer ou water heater one of the two but some case both { tsk tsk if done right it will blow main fuse with simple overload which I have see it more than once }

The larger fuse box will have it own plug fuse or cartage fuse holder for electrique waterheater so it will be not a issue.

Telecom Guy.,

The old days the white is used for netural but it was NOT enforced in old NEC code book way back that era I know it was written in there but some case someone used what it was avabile that time and genrally it is a no-no pratice to use the white unmarked conductors for phase or hot conductors I know that prataice still show up from time to time even today { it don't matter if you are in state side or European side I have see both ways }

Was that in the conduit { pipe } if so that may be ok way back that time but not really a best move with that set up in case someone is not aware with the set up and can get nasty suprised if not carefull with it and most of us electricians are trained to always test it if see non standard format in the fuse box or breaker box { it is mantory to keep it alert espcally at my side ( in France ) i have ran into at least 6 diffrent knowen colour combation thruout the history }

SD515.,

Yeah we have see old electrique water heater connection go back like late 40's { that typically have seperated meter socket for this purpose }

Justin if you have question about Ray's comment ., S.V.P. use PM { privite message } to ray with this question and I am sure he will answer direct to you.

Merci,
Marc
 
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