sub panel for diy rv wiring ....

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  #41  
Old 08-24-11, 03:57 PM
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Thank you, Furd, Post has been corrected. No excuse. I just didn't look close enough. Maybe I need a vacation.
 
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  #42  
Old 08-24-11, 03:58 PM
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Originally Posted by ray2047 View Post
See Furd's answer below and don't forget the hold down. You may have to get it from an electrical supply house.
came with panel .... blkjak .... thanks
 
  #43  
Old 08-24-11, 04:07 PM
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Originally Posted by Furd View Post
Sorry, Ray, but he has it wrong.

You cannot put two wires under a single screw as you show with the incoming "hot" and jumper to the upper main lug. The incoming hot MUST go to the 30 ampere circuit breaker and the two main lugs will have a jumper between them. That jumper must be of a minimum size and that size should be listed on the panel cover as the minimum size wire for the main lugs. #4 minimum size is typical for a 125 ampere panel
thanks "furd" ....

more questions .... wire sizes .... i appreciate your help ....

1. from 30a rv male inlet on van to breaker box i was planning on using a #10 .... 3-wire cable ....?

2. from the ground bar will i need a lug to attach it; can i use a coated ground wire; what size should the wire be ....?

blkjak ....
 
  #44  
Old 08-24-11, 05:09 PM
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latest "proposed panel" pic ....

 
  #45  
Old 08-24-11, 05:57 PM
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Originally Posted by blkjak View Post
info on panel cover only ....





blkjak ....
Good, I feel like you are the right track now! I don't like GE, but that's personal opinion. I think it will be fine.
 
  #46  
Old 08-24-11, 07:11 PM
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#10 wire from the inlet to the breaker panel is correct. Also use a #10 for the equipment grounding conductor, green insulation.
 
  #47  
Old 08-24-11, 07:26 PM
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I would also do all of this with thhn/thwn in plastic conduit.
Also GFI everything.
 
  #48  
Old 08-25-11, 02:10 AM
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Originally Posted by CasualJoe View Post
Good, I feel like you are the right track now! I don't like GE, but that's personal opinion. I think it will be fine.
thanks joe ....

i can live with two 15a breakers .....
so i might just connect the one hot wire to one hot lug and have 2 breakers and 2 blanks ....no - 30a breaker or jumper wire ....
am i still on the right track ....?
blkjak
 
  #49  
Old 08-25-11, 02:16 AM
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Originally Posted by Furd View Post
#10 wire from the inlet to the breaker panel is correct. Also use a #10 for the equipment grounding conductor, green insulation.
thanks "furd"blkjak

if two 15a breakers work with me could i just use the one hot connection and abandon the 30a breaker and jumper wire ...?

thanks for your help .... i appreciate it very much ....
 
  #50  
Old 08-25-11, 02:23 AM
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Originally Posted by Justin Smith View Post
I would also do all of this with thhn/thwn in plastic conduit.
Also GFI everything.
thanks for your advise justin .... blkjak
 
  #51  
Old 08-25-11, 05:32 AM
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i can live with two 15a breakers .....
so i might just connect the one hot wire to one hot lug and have 2 breakers and 2 blanks ....no - 30a breaker or jumper wire ....
am i still on the right track ....?
You could also use 2 20A breakers instead of 3 15.
 
  #52  
Old 08-25-11, 09:18 AM
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Originally Posted by blkjak View Post
thanks "furd"blkjak

if two 15a breakers work with me could i just use the one hot connection and abandon the 30a breaker and jumper wire ...?
Yes, you could but that panel will take the GE "skinny mini" circuit breakers and that will allow a total of eight circuits. What I would suggest is that you use a full-size 30 ampere single-pole for the main as I previously described with the jumper between the two main lugs and then that would allow up to six of the skinny mini breakers. I don't know that there is any reason to do so but it is the better option than just using one-half of the breaker spaces.
 
  #53  
Old 08-25-11, 04:15 PM
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Originally Posted by Justin Smith View Post
You could also use 2 20A breakers instead of 3 15.
thanks justin .....

real n00b to sparky stuff ....

my air conditioner and seperate heater both say to be on 15a breakers ....

blkjak ....
 
  #54  
Old 08-25-11, 04:30 PM
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Originally Posted by Furd View Post
Yes, you could but that panel will take the GE "skinny mini" circuit breakers and that will allow a total of eight circuits. What I would suggest is that you use a full-size 30 ampere single-pole for the main as I previously described with the jumper between the two main lugs and then that would allow up to six of the skinny mini breakers. I don't know that there is any reason to do so but it is the better option than just using one-half of the breaker spaces.

thanks again furd ....

i will do main breaker and jumper as you advised ....
i appreciate all the help i have been given ....
when i save up some $ i will start 12vac &12vdc work - i will post progress and pics here ....

blkjak ....

below is pic of where i will be camping in my van forever when i finish it .... LOL .... i will between the ocoeee and hiwasee rivers up in the cherokee mountains ....

 
  #55  
Old 08-25-11, 07:13 PM
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Originally Posted by blkjak View Post
thanks joe ....

i can live with two 15a breakers .....
so i might just connect the one hot wire to one hot lug and have 2 breakers and 2 blanks ....no - 30a breaker or jumper wire ....
am i still on the right track ....?
blkjak
Just follow the advice from Furd, I agree with his suggestion. Furd follows this board more closely than I can and he has a lot of knowledge.
 
  #56  
Old 08-25-11, 08:09 PM
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Originally Posted by CasualJoe View Post
Just follow the advice from Furd, I agree with his suggestion. Furd follows this board more closely than I can and he has a lot of knowledge.
thanks "joe" .... blkjak ....
 
  #57  
Old 08-29-11, 12:31 PM
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Do you not plan to have any 12V loads (lights, fan, etc.) in your rig? If you do (and you should), you'd be much better off purchasing an RV inverter that will provide the 12VDC and also keep your batteries charged. And what about air conditioning? A couple of 15A circuits will not run an A/C unit (or just barely) And do you realize RV parks use a special 30-amp RV receptacle that only a special RV plug will fit? I admire your ambition but don't think you've sufficiently thought this through.
 
  #58  
Old 08-29-11, 01:09 PM
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Md2lgyk, earlier in the thread he mentioned he didn't want to use an RV panel with built in DC inverter for cost reasons. He said he'd do the DC later. There was also early on some discussion by him about types of plugs and use of converters for the cord he has. A small window ac would use only about one fourth of the available power. That should leave plenty for a small refrigerator, TV and lights.
 
  #59  
Old 08-29-11, 01:19 PM
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Originally Posted by md2lgyk View Post
Do you not plan to have any 12V loads (lights, fan, etc.) in your rig? If you do (and you should), you'd be much better off purchasing an RV inverter that will provide the 12VDC and also keep your batteries charged. And what about air conditioning? A couple of 15A circuits will not run an A/C unit (or just barely) And do you realize RV parks use a special 30-amp RV receptacle that only a special RV plug will fit? I admire your ambition but don't think you've sufficiently thought this through.
1. i will have a 12vdc system ....
90% of the time i will not be on a rv hookup ....
a. 200 amp alternator ....
b. BLUE SEA SYSTEMS - Starting Isolation (SI) Dual Sensing Automatic Charging Relay
c. four agm deep cell odyssey military type batteries
d. one odyseey high amp three stage charger
e. two turbo marine fans - motors from germany
f. two SHURFLO - Yellowtail Marine Blowers - intake and exhaust ventilation for battery compartment , honda eu2000 generator, and 5000 btu airconditoner function

2. the air conditioner is a 120vac 15amp
a. will run in rv hook up, generator hook up, and 15a direct plug in

3. rv park special 30a plug in
a. i will have the appropriate recepticle under my van
b. with the help from this site i can now run a three wire feed to my 120vac panel with one hot - the sub panel will have a 30a main breaker and [3] 15a breakers - air conditioner and heater will have their own breakers.

thanks for posting - i have never did anything like this before

my next "sparky" thing that i do not know how to do is ....

can i put a plug in repticle to plug generator in just before 12vac panel bpx to power the panel when i am remote in the mountains ????

thanks everyone again for all the help here ....

blkjak ....
 
  #60  
Old 08-29-11, 04:52 PM
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can i put a plug in repticle to plug generator in just before 12vac panel bpx to power the panel when i am remote in the mountains ????
No, the main panel should feed to an inlet not a receptacle. You would plug in an extension cord between the genny or camp site receptacle and the inlet. You would use a 30 amp inlet.

 

Last edited by ray2047; 08-29-11 at 05:45 PM.
  #61  
Old 08-29-11, 05:30 PM
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Originally Posted by ray2047 View Post
No, the main panel should feed to an inlet not a receptacle. You would plug in an extension cord between the genny or camp site receptacle and the inlet. You would use a 30 amp inlet.

n00b here - i meant inlet not receptacle ....

thanks again .... blkjak
 

Last edited by ray2047; 08-29-11 at 05:47 PM. Reason: Change image in quote.
  #62  
Old 08-29-11, 05:33 PM
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Originally Posted by ray2047 View Post
No, the main panel should feed to an inlet not a receptacle. You would plug in an extension cord between the genny or camp site receptacle and the inlet. You would use a 30 amp inlet.
thanks again .... i think it is all starting to sink in .... blkjak
 
  #63  
Old 08-29-11, 05:35 PM
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The 2000W generator only puts out 16.3A.
 
  #64  
Old 08-30-11, 02:42 AM
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Originally Posted by Justin Smith View Post
The 2000W generator only puts out 16.3A.
hi justin ....

the honda website says 16.7a ....
the air conditioner sheet says runs at 4.8a but needs three times at start up ....
i need to find out what the odyseey high amp three stage charger uses ....
i will be running air conditioner from shore power ....
i will not purchase generator untill there is a need ....

thanks for your help and interest .... blkjak
 
  #65  
Old 08-31-11, 03:02 AM
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By the way, for those interested:

The power feed method Furd outlined, using the 30 amp breaker, is call "backfeeding". It allows limiting current draw through the panel to 30 amps.

If you violate code and connect both the feeder and a jumper to one power lug and the other end of the jumper to the other power lug, you have no main breaker. That means you could easily overdraw the capabilities of the power cord or wiring used to get power to the panel.

If I were installing the panel, I would install 6 of the half width 15 amp breakers, even if I did not use several of them at first.
 
  #66  
Old 08-31-11, 03:34 AM
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Originally Posted by billnel View Post
By the way, for those interested:

The power feed method Furd outlined, using the 30 amp breaker, is call "backfeeding". It allows limiting current draw through the panel to 30 amps.

If you violate code and connect both the feeder and a jumper to one power lug and the other end of the jumper to the other power lug, you have no main breaker. That means you could easily overdraw the capabilities of the power cord or wiring used to get power to the panel.

If I were installing the panel, I would install 6 of the half width 15 amp breakers, even if I did not use several of them at first.
thanks for help ....

n00b here .... why would you do the "6 half width 15a breakers" .... blkjak
 
  #67  
Old 08-31-11, 04:54 AM
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Originally Posted by billnel View Post
By the way, for those interested:

The power feed method Furd outlined, using the 30 amp breaker, is call "backfeeding". It allows limiting current draw through the panel to 30 amps.

If you violate code and connect both the feeder and a jumper to one power lug and the other end of the jumper to the other power lug, you have no main breaker. That means you could easily overdraw the capabilities of the power cord or wiring used to get power to the panel.

If I were installing the panel, I would install 6 of the half width 15 amp breakers, even if I did not use several of them at first.
How do you overdraw a 30A receptacle/cord fed from a 30a breaker?
 
  #68  
Old 08-31-11, 06:42 AM
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What if you use an adapter to hook up to a 50A feed?
 
  #69  
Old 08-31-11, 06:46 AM
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Originally Posted by blkjak View Post
thanks for help ....

n00b here .... why would you do the "6 half width 15a breakers" .... blkjak
I like to keep load separated when possible, you never know when you might want to add something else, such as a hot plate or space heater. You should also have some utility outlets, for such things as a TV, computer etc.
 
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Old 08-31-11, 08:08 AM
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Originally Posted by billnel View Post
What if you use an adapter to hook up to a 50A feed?
i will not do that ....
woud it trip the 30a main breaker in the sub panel ....?
what would it do to the 30a extension cord ....?
blkjak ....
 
  #71  
Old 08-31-11, 08:11 AM
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Originally Posted by billnel View Post
I like to keep load separated when possible, you never know when you might want to add something else, such as a hot plate or space heater. You should also have some utility outlets, for such things as a TV, computer etc.
i understand now .... thank you for helping me .... blkjak
 
  #72  
Old 08-31-11, 05:15 PM
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Could one of the pros check the bonding suggestion, please? Shouldn't this be treated as a subpanel with no bond to neutral? I'm a boater, and it is a major no-no to bond the boat's neutral to ground at the boat's panel unless the AC system is isolated with a transformer. RV's are even more dangerous if wired improperly, due in part to the fact that the chassis is also the DC ground. A boat will ground through the metal parts that contact water, and a bond to neutral will always introduce introduce potential as a result.

An RV is isolated by its tires, so a person who touches metal can bypass the tires.

In any case, blkjak, you have the right idea to live the Great American Escape Fantasy. For the record, there are also freebie campgrounds all over the country. My wife and I are gearing up to sell everything we own, buy a 40-foot trawler, and live on the water. Great Lakes in the summer; Bahamas in the winter. It's a 5-year plan, and we're now two years into it.
 
  #73  
Old 08-31-11, 08:15 PM
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Without reviewing the entire thread I'm fairly certain I mentioned that the neutral should NOT be bonded to the equipment ground. I know that I pointed out that with the plastic enclosure that neither the neutral or equipment grounding bus would be automatically bonded. The equipment ground bus does need to be bonded to the vehicle frame which I'm pretty sure was also discussed.
 
  #74  
Old 08-31-11, 08:26 PM
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Originally Posted by Furd View Post
Without reviewing the entire thread I'm fairly certain I mentioned that the neutral should NOT be bonded to the equipment ground. I know that I pointed out that with the plastic enclosure that neither the neutral or equipment grounding bus would be automatically bonded. The equipment ground bus does need to be bonded to the vehicle frame which I'm pretty sure was also discussed.
yes .... thanks "ferd" .... blkjak
 
  #75  
Old 08-31-11, 08:30 PM
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Originally Posted by Rick Johnston View Post
Could one of the pros check the bonding suggestion, please? Shouldn't this be treated as a subpanel with no bond to neutral?
thanks "rick" .... and everyone .... blkjak
 
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