Load Center recommendations

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  #41  
Old 09-13-11, 10:33 AM
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I see what you’re saying. The original installation was safe. It wasn't until someone installed the fan without changing the box where it became unsafe. It's like the NEC is trying to protect people from themselves in this case.
 
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  #42  
Old 09-13-11, 05:04 PM
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I'm going tomorrow to apply for the building permit, Ill ask to see in what rooms they require the AFCI breakers, if they require the 120v interconnected smoke detectors and about the ceiling boxes. I've been making changes to the layouts with all of the suggestions you guys have given me and will see what they say.
 
  #43  
Old 09-13-11, 07:24 PM
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Originally Posted by CasualJoe View Post
Does that mean no more plastic nail-on ceiling boxes in bedrooms, dining rooms, kitchens or family rooms? It sounds as if this is another case of the code cycle panel getting involved in the design element again and not just safety.
That is my take on it unless the box is fan rated. There are plastic nail-on for fans. Slater or Pass & Seymour/LeGrand have one.

I think the code panels heard of too many hanging fans from unrated boxes and just decided that a change was needed to enhance safety.

Boxes for the smoke alarms would not need to be fan rated.
 
  #44  
Old 11-08-11, 05:50 PM
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I'm working on running wires now, in the kitchen I have 7 counter top outlets fed by 2 separate 20amp circuits. Can I feed both circuits from the panel with one 12-3 cable. I was planning to run 12-3 to the first outlet and 12-3 to each outlet after that just alternating which hot wire powers that outlet or just passes through to the next.

I'd have 1 circuit with 4 outlets and the other with 3. The first outlet in each circuit will be a gfci outlet.
 
  #45  
Old 11-08-11, 07:17 PM
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You would need to pigtail the neutral before the first GFI and then feed the other receptacles with 12-2. All the countertop receptacles will require GFI protection.

The circuit will need to be feed by a 2 pole breaker.
 
  #46  
Old 11-08-11, 07:43 PM
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You can share the neutral between multiple circuits anyplace after a GFCI is inserted into a circuit and the devices after the GFCI are connected to the load side.

If you share the neutral it will cause the GFCI to keep tripping.
 
  #47  
Old 11-24-11, 06:21 PM
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is it better to use a GFCI receptacle for each spot I'm planning to have a countertop outlet (7 receptacles, fed by 2 breakers, 4 recptacles on 1 breaker, 3 on the other breaker), or is it alright to use a GFCI receptacle for the first in each circuit and just connect the remaining standard receptacles on the circuit to the load side?

I already pulled 12/3 from box to box so I may just put GFCI's in each, though it might be cheaper if I remove the 12/3 that I pulled (probably about 20') and pull 12/2 from box to box.

Either way I was planning on just pulling 1 12/3 from the breakers to feed both circuits.

 
  #48  
Old 11-25-11, 11:07 AM
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You can do it either way, but if you use one GFI outlet as the first outlet on each circuit and wire the remaining receptacles to the load side of the first, you'll need to pull the 12-3 back to the first box and split the two circuits there. The 2nd, 3rd and 4th outlets that wire to the load side of the 1st GFI outlet will need to be wired with 12-2 NMB cable.
 
  #49  
Old 11-25-11, 02:34 PM
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You could use a GFI breaker too.
 
  #50  
Old 11-25-11, 04:04 PM
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thanks for the replies.

I think I'm going to pull back the 12/3 and run 12/2 from outlet to outlet. It would cost me around $110 for 7 GFCI outlets. Its only about $25 for 25' for 12/2.

It's still ok to supply both circuits with 12/3 correct?
 
  #51  
Old 11-25-11, 04:13 PM
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It's still ok to supply both circuits with 12/3 correct?
Yes.
It would cost me around $110 for 7 GFCI outlets.
Yikes!It'd cost me $70.42+tax. Where are you going???
 
  #52  
Old 11-25-11, 04:58 PM
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Lowes
Shop Cooper Wiring Devices 20-Amp White Decorator GFCI Electrical Outlet at Lowes.com

are GFCI outlets like standard 15amp outlets where it is acceptable to use a standard 15amp outlet on a 20amp circuit? If so I can use either of these and save some. Shop Cooper Wiring Devices 3-Pack 15-Amp White Decorator GFCI Electrical Outlet at Lowes.com
Shop Cooper Wiring Devices 15-Amp White Decorator GFCI Electrical Outlet at Lowes.com
 
  #53  
Old 11-25-11, 07:38 PM
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As long as there are two physical places to insert a plug on a 20 amp circuit you can use the 15 amp slotted receptacles. A standard duplex counts as two places.
 
  #54  
Old 11-25-11, 08:34 PM
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Originally Posted by Justin Smith View Post
Yes.
Yikes!It'd cost me $70.42+tax. Where are you going???
And 15 amp GFI devices would be even less; probably about $50.
 
  #55  
Old 11-26-11, 07:54 AM
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Wow! 20A gfci's are $10.06 at my supply house.
 
  #56  
Old 11-26-11, 08:28 AM
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Wow! 20A gfci's are $10.06 at my supply house.
You must shop at the wrong supply house.
 
  #57  
Old 11-26-11, 04:03 PM
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I pulled back the 12/3 and pulled 12/2 instead. Now I just need 2 GFCI outlets instead of 7.
 
  #58  
Old 12-17-11, 06:51 PM
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Originally Posted by pcboss View Post
You would need to pigtail the neutral before the first GFI and then feed the other receptacles with 12-2. All the countertop receptacles will require GFI protection.

The circuit will need to be feed by a 2 pole breaker.
A 2 pole breaker like I would use for a 240v circuit?
 
  #59  
Old 12-17-11, 06:55 PM
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If you have one 12-2 feeding each circuit you do not need a 2 pole breaker. A two pole would be needed if you had a MWBC where two hots share the same neutral.

I did not re-scan the entire thread so if this is not what you have let us know.
 
  #60  
Old 12-17-11, 07:18 PM
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this is what I have
 
  #61  
Old 12-17-11, 08:18 PM
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You need a 2-pole breaker.
 
  #62  
Old 12-18-11, 05:27 AM
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OK, just to make sure, this will still be considered 2 separate 20amp circuits though correct, its just that if either circuit has an issue where the breaker trips it shuts off both circuits instead of just 1 because of the shared neutral.
 
  #63  
Old 12-18-11, 06:59 AM
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You need the two pole to make sure no one gets shocked while working on the other half of the circuit.
 
  #64  
Old 12-18-11, 07:56 AM
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It's a code issue first mandated by the 2008 NEC. If your area is still on an earlier code such as 2005 or 2002, two single pole breakers meet the code requirements. In my area, when the 2008 NEC was adopted, it was adopted with amendments not requiring the use of a 2 pole breaker in residential work till the 2011 code is adopted. That being said, many contractors have gone on and started using 2 pole breakers.
 
  #65  
Old 12-18-11, 01:54 PM
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If it's possible you may decide in the future to install an "Optional stand-by System " ( emergency generator ) , you should plan on connecting essential circuits to an "emergeny " panel that can be connected either to "normal" ( utility) power or emergency generator power.

The power rating of the generator would be based on the KW value of the essentail loads connected to the emergency panel.

For the present , the EP is connected to a 2-pole CB in the Service Panel.
 
  #66  
Old 12-20-11, 05:36 PM
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Just had an electrician stop by tonight to give me an estimate on upgrading the service into the house (weather-head into new panel).

Anyway I have my rough inspection tomorrow and he was looking over some of my work. I had installed the 20amp 2-pole breaker for the 2 kitchen counter-top outlets and he told me that it has to be 2 individual 20amp breakers tied together with a breaker tie (I forget the term, not sure if that's it or not). He said it can't be a 2 pole breaker.

This is what I am using
Shop Square D QO 20-Amp Double Pole Circuit Breaker at Lowes.com
 
  #67  
Old 12-20-11, 05:59 PM
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Both are legal.
 
  #68  
Old 12-20-11, 07:01 PM
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Anyway I have my rough inspection tomorrow and he was looking over some of my work. I had installed the 20amp 2-pole breaker for the 2 kitchen counter-top outlets and he told me that it has to be 2 individual 20amp breakers tied together with a breaker tie (I forget the term, not sure if that's it or not). He said it can't be a 2 pole breaker.
He's sounds like he's about as sharp as a butter knife. I think I'd find a different electrician.
 
  #69  
Old 12-20-11, 07:02 PM
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Breaker tie or handle tie would be the common name.
 
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