Outdoor Electric for Hot Tub & Garage

Sorry for the long post but just trying to be detailed. I recently acquired a hot tub and need to run electric for it. Based on the manual, it calls for a 50 Amp DP breaker in the main panel, 4 wire to a subpanel/disconnect, 30 Amp DP and 20 Amp DP breakers supplying the hot tub (GFIC of course). New Jersey, as far as I can tell, also goes off of the 2008 electric subcode. My questions are as follows:

1. THHN or THWN in any buried conduit? If you're wondering, planning on 6 AWG.
2. Schedule 40 or Schedule 80 conduit? It will be direct burial, not encased in concrete.
3. Does the subpanel/disconnect for the hot tub have to be within eyesight (which I think means 30 ft)? I'm a little confused by the code since 680.41 says this is not a requirement for single family dwellings. My thinking is it would be much easier to have just around a close corner of the house due to the house's design (would be about 20 ft away). I'm not exactly sure yet with where I would prefer the subpanel but want to know all of my options.

4. I'd like to run electric to my garage at the same time. Even though the hot tub's manual calls for a 50 Amp breaker at the main panel, could I use a larger breaker and use feed through connections on the subpanel to continue conductors to the garage, which is disconnected and about another 70 feet away.

Or, would it be better/safer to separate the garage? In which case, could I use larger conduit for all conductors to the hot tub and garage, and just split off to the hot tub? So this would be 8 conductors part way, splitting off to 4 for the hot tub and 4 for the garage? If this is possible, could I also downsize the conduit after the split?

5. Last question, if I also install conduit for any future communication/internet/speaker lines to the garage, can this be touching the other conduit or should it be 6 inches higher?

 

THWN in PVC schedule 40 conduit, buried 18" if underground, #8 for the hots and neutral, #10 green copper for the ground.

Depends a lot on your local enforcement. Many would be okay with the disconnect right around the corner from the tub. The inspector might want you to put breaker locks on the panel, but that is only a couple bucks.

It would be possible. I would probably run a small 100A panel to the area which would have 20A and 30A breakers for the tub and a 50A or 60A breaker to feed the garage. If you want to go this way let us know and we can give you the wire sizes and conduit sizes.

It would be best to separate it as much as practical. Any analog low voltage lines in proximity to the power lines will have a hum if they are close to each other.

 

The 680.41 is for an emergency shutoff, not a disconnect at the dwelling. Incidents have happened where a child was held against a suction drain at a public tub or pool and her internal organs were pulled out from the suction.

 

"It would be possible. I would probably run a small 100A panel to the area which would have 20A and 30A breakers for the tub and a 50A or 60A breaker to feed the garage. If you want to go this way let us know and we can give you the wire sizes and conduit sizes."

So I have yet to do this project because some other things came up that were a priority. If I do the above with the 100A outdoor subpanel, would it be a 60A breaker in the main panel, with a 60A breaker in the subpanel as well as the 20 & 30A breakers for the hot tub, and then service to the garage through the feed through lugs? I am not sure of the following:

1. is the 60A breaker in the main panel large enough (and I assume the disconnect in the subpanel needs to be at least the same size even though the hot tub only calls for 50A).
2. what conductor size (4 AWG copper or is 6 AWG ok)? Does ground have to be #4 or should it be smaller?
3. what conduit size

Also, I'm planning on making this a little easier for myself with less digging. Can I run Romex through the house to an indoor junction box, then THHN/THWN the rest of the way? Does the THHN have to be in conduit in the house since it is seperate conductors? Can the outdoor supanel (mounted to the back of my house) be back fed, and is conduit needed for this (if so I would use flex NM) section (from junction to subpanel with THHN/THWN)?

Once I get outside, I'd like to run above ground attached beneath my deck (deck is about 3 feet off ground), then just bury the last 10 feet of conduit to my hot tub.

Doing this inside/outside run, it does add some length. Inside would be about 85 feet due to the L shape of my house from the main panel to the outdoor subpanel, 16 feet under the deck and another 10 feet of direct burial to the hot tub. From the subpanel to the garage is another 70 feet. I'm not sure if I should be adding these together or if they should be seperate (i.e. total distance to hot tub is 111 and total distance to garage is 155 ft).

 

60A would probably be okay if you only have modest electrical needs in the garage - lights and basic tools. If you need any more power than that in the garage I would make the subpanel larger than 60A.

The subpanel does not need a main breaker/disconnect as it will have fewer than 6 breakers. It can be a MLO (main lug only) panel. It would have three breakers: 20A & 30A to the tub and some yet undetermined size to the garage.

60A requires a minimum of #6 copper for the hots and neutral with #10 copper for the ground. The smallest conduit size allowed would be 3/4"; but I upsize to 1" in situations like this.

Yes you can run romex (NM-B) cable through the house interior. THHN conductors must always be in conduit. The outdoor panel can be back fed or it can be a main lug only panel.

That is okay.