Questions for 220 V water heater wiring

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  #1  
Old 11-11-11, 09:17 PM
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Questions for 220 V water heater wiring

1) I need to relocate the timer for 220 V 40 gallon water heater. Is the grey PVC conduit rated for 220 V wiring?

2) Currently, the wires are placed inside a metal sheath that runs between the timer box and where the wires emerge from dry wall. Rephrased, one end of the metal sheath is terminated at the timer box, and the other end is embedded in the dry wall. I'm not sure if this is per code.

Thanks.
 
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Old 11-12-11, 02:39 AM
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Originally Posted by paker View Post
1) I need to relocate the timer for 220 V 40 gallon water heater. Is the grey PVC conduit rated for 220 V wiring?
Yes


2) Currently, the wires are placed inside a metal sheath that runs between the timer box and where the wires emerge from dry wall. Rephrased, one end of the metal sheath is terminated at the timer box, and the other end is embedded in the dry wall. I'm not sure if this is per code.

Thanks.
Not sure if I understand you correctly. Does the flex just penetrate the drywall? And it goes where?
 
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Old 11-12-11, 04:31 AM
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Most likely the LINE is entering directly into the timer box from the wall. The timer box can act at a junction box and would satisfy code as long as the cable is protected. How far do you need to relocate the timer? What you can do is allow the LINE to enter a junction box placed where the timer is located presently and run pvc conduit to the new timer location. The junction box will give you a place to connect your new run of cable to the timer. It must remain exposed and covered with an appropriate cover plate. From there it is repetitive. Just run your conduit from and to the timer/water heater unit. Make note (take pictures) of how your wiring is attached inside the timer before you relocate it so you can reattach the wires in an identical manner. Ensure the power is off before you begin.
 
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Old 11-12-11, 06:40 AM
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You may not need to use conduit to relocate the timer at all unless it is required by local codes. Is this in an unfinished basement or is this in a totally finished area of your house? More information and/or pictures would help tremendously.
 
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Old 11-13-11, 09:08 PM
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Thanks for replies. My first photo attempt.
waterheatertimer2.jpg picture by pakerna - Photobucket

Since water heater is a dedicated circuit, I doubt the metal sheath is going to a junction box hidden somewhere. It appears to be embedded in the wall. I will correct the situation with a junction box as chandler explained.

I don't know the local code. I will just use a conduit to be safe. It is in the garage. Not a living space.

One additional question. Can I put 220V and 120V in the same conduit and same junction box? Unwise at least?

Thanks.
 
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Old 11-14-11, 05:33 AM
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It looks like your WH is fed with AC cable coming thru the wall. It probably runs all the way to the panel. Except for not being secured I don't see any issues.

The flex conduit going to the WH could be replaced with a longer length and new #10 conductors installed. A #10 green should also be pulled in to ground the WH. It too should be secured.

Mixing 120 and 240 wiring in one conduit is fine. Where would you need to do this?
 

Last edited by pcboss; 11-16-11 at 10:39 AM. Reason: corrected EGC size
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Old 11-14-11, 06:11 PM
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Thank you for the answer. Mixing 120 and 240 was "just in case I need to" type question. Thanks again.
 
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Old 11-15-11, 03:05 AM
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You may have to increase your conduit size, as the AC conduit leading to your WH is full, now.
 
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Old 11-15-11, 03:51 AM
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How far or where are you moving the timer?
 
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Old 11-15-11, 07:39 PM
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Note that the writing on the timer indicates it's a 208/277 circuit, not 240v. Having never played with 3phase wiring, it may require some slightly different wiring.

-- insert instructions here from someone who knows more about this than I do --
 
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Old 11-15-11, 10:35 PM
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I think that time switch was originally mounted in some industrial application, surplussed and then installed in the residence.
 
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Old 11-16-11, 04:26 AM
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Originally Posted by Luana View Post
I think that time switch was originally mounted in some industrial application, surplussed and then installed in the residence.
That was my thought too. I doubt the power company is supplying 3 phase to a residence.
 
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Old 11-16-11, 08:47 AM
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Originally Posted by pcboss View Post
It looks like your WH is fed with AC cable coming thru the wall. It probably runs all the way to the panel. Except for not being secured I don't see any issues.
Could be my eyes, but both look look like 3/4" FMC

The flex conduit going to the WH could be replaced with a longer length and new #10 conductors installed. A #12 green should also be pulled in to ground the WH. It too should be secured.
I'll bite. How is that legal? A #12 ground with #10 hots on a 30 amp breaker.:NO NO NO:

Mod note: The correct ground conductor size should be #10. The original post has been corrected. Thank you.
 

Last edited by pcboss; 11-16-11 at 10:41 AM.
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Old 11-16-11, 08:50 AM
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Originally Posted by chandler View Post
You may have to increase your conduit size, as the AC conduit leading to your WH is full, now.
Huh? How did you decide on this?
 
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Old 11-16-11, 08:56 AM
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Originally Posted by Zorfdt View Post
Note that the writing on the timer indicates it's a 208/277 circuit, not 240v. Having never played with 3phase wiring, it may require some slightly different wiring.

-- insert instructions here from someone who knows more about this than I do --
While those voltages are derived from a three phase source, the wiring is still basic single phase. Here is a common model.

http://www.intermatic.com/~/media/fi...20english.ashx
 
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Old 11-16-11, 09:01 AM
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Jim and Luanna,

There is nothing industrial with that little timer, it is just that it could be used in small commercial apps also. It is common to many residential apps also.

How do you multiquote on this forum?
 
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Old 11-19-11, 07:41 PM
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Thanks for the replies and my apology for being away from the forum on car troubles.

1) I'm moving the timer only a few feet.
2) I will terminate wires in an electrical box and run conduits.
3) I will use #10 conductors.
4) I didn't know I need 3/4" conduit for #10 wires.
5) The writing on the timer housing: I had to replace the timer clock motor and wrote the motor info on the housing. The timer was bought from home depot.
Thanks.
 
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Old 11-20-11, 06:10 AM
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Three 3 #10s will fit in 1/2" EMT.
 
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Old 11-20-11, 12:51 PM
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Originally Posted by wingz View Post
Huh? How did you decide on this?
If the OP plans on running additional wiring in that flex from the wall (and it's only 1/2"), he will need to increase that size. It ain't rocket science. The #10's presently in it are just fine, but adding a 120 volt circuit wiring in the same conduit will violate space requirements.
 
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Old 11-20-11, 05:35 PM
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Half-inch trade size flexible metallic conduit may have six #10 THHN conductors. If there are only three at present then there is plenty of room to add a pair of #14 or #12 conductors.

That is, if the flex shown in the pictures is really 1/2 inch FMC and not either 3/8 inch or (worse) not even conduit but type AC cable.
 
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