Not A/C - Wall oven and glass cooktop wiring

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  #1  
Old 11-21-11, 06:18 PM
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Not A/C - Wall oven and glass cooktop wiring

I replaced my old oven/cooktop in one appliance with a separate wall oven and cooktop. I am wondering if I can hook both appliances to the existing outlet. The instructions call for separate outlets for each appliance but I don't see why they couldn't be both hooked on the same outlet since my previous appliance had both the oven and cooktop in one, and my new wall oven is not a double oven. I am trying to avoid inserting an additional breaker in the panel and pulling new wire. Thank you!
 
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  #2  
Old 11-21-11, 07:14 PM
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Ok, I am doing it right now. I unscrewed the cover of the outlet (which is on the floor, and I hooked the wires of the oven directly in the slots.
I just unpacked the cooktop and I see it has three wires only. Do I just hook the red to red, black to black and the green to the ground? The outlet has the fourth slot for the white wire but the cooktop only comes with the three wires. Will it be alright? Better said; will they both work alright if the outlet has the fourth slot which fits the oven's wiresbut the cooktop only has three wires? Thank you, please share if you know the answer.
 
  #3  
Old 11-21-11, 07:19 PM
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There are several reasons that what you propose to do isn't wise (although I have seen it more times than I care to say). First of all, the existing circuit may not supply enough power for two separate appliances. Second, the existing range outlet is only designed for one plug, not two. Third, if you are planning on direct wiring each appliance from the existing outlet, you probably are over protecting the wiring to each appliance. Fourth, what you are proposing probably violates the U.L. Listing of each appliance. Do it right and add another circuit of the proper amperage and be sure the existing outlet is connected to the proper size circuit breaker too.

Someone here will gladly assist you. What amperage and voltage is indicated in the installation instructions for each appliance? What is the amperage, voltage and circuit breaker size on the existing circuit? You can probably utilize the existing circuit for one of the new appliances.
 
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Old 11-21-11, 07:28 PM
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I just unpacked the cooktop and I see it has three wires only.
Sounds as if the cooktop needs a 240 volt 3 wire circuit, two hots and one ground. What amperage is required? Have you read the installation instructions yet?

will they both work alright if the outlet has the fourth slot which fits the oven's wiresbut the cooktop only has three wires?
Apparently the oven needs a 120/240 volt 4 wire circuit, two hots, 1 neutral and 1 ground. I'd use the existing circuit for the oven and install a new 240 volt circuit for the cooktop. Please read the installation instructions before you proceed.
 
  #5  
Old 11-21-11, 07:40 PM
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Joe gave you good advice all around.

You cannot just insert the wires into the slots of the old receptacle.
 
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Old 11-21-11, 07:54 PM
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I realized is not too late, and I called an acquaintance electrician and I read to him the watts on each appliance. My existing breaker is 40 and I need to change it to 50 ( I already purchased one as instructed by the Lowes sales person). The wire that feeds the breaker is nr 6 thickness, so it should handle both appliances. And I am told the fourth wire which the oven has and the cooktop doesn't, it is a neutral wire. So I will connect the cooktop red to red, black to black and the green to ground, and of course, nothing in the slot for the neutral wire.

The outlet is designed for one appliance but I don't use the outlet, I unscrewed the top and I hooked the wires directly in the slots, together with the wires coming from the breaker, according to their color, then screwed back each wire very tight.

I don't know terminology but I am aware this is serious. I am however a perfectionist and very meticulous, so it will all be done perfectly (except for using one outlet only). Thank you so much!
 
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Old 11-21-11, 07:59 PM
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The terminals in the receptacle are made for one conductor only. Your connections are not safe, nor are they code compliant.

You need to install a junction box and use the proper connectors.
 
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Old 11-21-11, 08:18 PM
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I don't know terminology but I am aware this is serious. I am however a perfectionist and very meticulous, so it will all be done perfectly
If this is the case you understand the seriousness of the National Electrical Code and would want it done right and not jerry rigged as you are proposing; it's all about safety.
 
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Old 11-21-11, 08:58 PM
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Originally Posted by CasualJoe View Post
If this is the case you understand the seriousness of the National Electrical Code and would want it done right and not jerry rigged as you are proposing; it's all about safety.
I've been cooking on a Walmart, small $15 cooktop for the past year and a half because I could not afford an electrician to run for me an additional wire from the panel. I can't go in the crawl space myself as I have snakes and huge spiders, as large as the fist. I can make eye contact with the spiders when one comes out.
I'm barely making it from month to month after leaving the whole house to my ex for playing too nasty and dirty over our assets. This evening I had to cook a meal after blowing leafs off the roof of my mobile home and yard, then cleaned up all the yard, I was starving and drained, and I knew it will take forever to just bring the water to a boil, leave alone cook the meal. It finally occurred to me; what if.... The wires are now connected but I will only change the breaker in the morning as I've never done it before and I want to turn the main breaker off just to make sure I don't touch something mistakenly. If the appliances are going to work, I will be very grateful. The old appliance was actually stollen from the mobile home long before I bought the place (foreclosure), and the new ones were bought by my uncle. I do appreciate your concern and advice. Sometimes in life even the crucial things can become a luxury you don't afford.
 
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Old 11-22-11, 07:04 AM
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Wire Size

Read the instructions. Use the appropriate wire sizes and breaker amperages. The wiring within each appliance has to have the proper level of over current protection as well as the branch circuit wiring.

The wire that feeds the breaker is nr 6 thickness, so it should handle both appliances.
Is this wire copper or aluminum?
 
  #11  
Old 11-22-11, 07:19 AM
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The wire that feeds the breaker is nr 6 thickness, so it should handle both appliances.
Near is not good enough. Either the wire is larger enough or it is not. Electrical wiring is not horseshoes. We don't want to see you burn your place down or worse.

You have not provided any nameplate data for anyone to even tell if the two appliances can share the one circuit.
 
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Old 11-22-11, 07:28 AM
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There may be a way to do this safely for less then $30 plus the cost of the breaker. If you are interested post back and we can walk you through it step by step.

We will need to know:

Name plate data for both.

Does the cable to the receptacle have 3 wires or 4 wires?

Is the receptacle surface mounted or is it in a box in the wall? If a box is that box at least 3"X3"?

Does the cook top have a whip. That is a flexible metal encased cable coming from it. Will it reach the place where the receptacle currently is?

Does the oven have a whip. Will it reach the place where the receptacle currently is?
 
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Old 12-28-11, 07:46 PM
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Thank you SO much! for your replays!!! It didn't occur to me people will answer after my last post and I got caught up with life (never a dull moment), and I no longer checked the forum.

The receptacle is on the floor, and for now the cooktop lays on top of the wall oven until I'll have a window to build a few cabinets. So both wires reach easily the receptacle.

Both the cooktop and the stove have been working since (I'm cooking daily). One thing I didn't appreciate before; slow cooking also meant no need for a range hood. Now I can only cook with the windows open so the smell doesn't take over the house. All well.

I have another question, I don't know if I should post here, or open a new thread.

mod note: New question has been split here: http://www.doityourself.com/forum/el...it-thread.html
 

Last edited by Tolyn Ironhand; 12-28-11 at 08:09 PM.
  #14  
Old 12-28-11, 08:01 PM
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Back to the cooking equipment: Do not just jamb the wire into the slots, and wire connections should be with lugs or wirenuts. Just jambing the wires into the slots of the receptacleis not a good connection and could likely start a fire!
 
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Old 12-28-11, 08:46 PM
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I don't know if I am using the right word by "slot". I actually took the cover of the receptacle off, I inserted the wires each in the appropriate 'channel'?, I then tighten each wire with the screw, and then I screwed the cover of the receptacle back. So from the outside no wires go in the actual holes of the outlet, they wires are screwed tight on the inside of the outlet, and the cover goes on top.

That's how an electrician made the connection in the previous home. He said nowadays, for stoves and cooktops they no longer use plugs.
 
  #16  
Old 12-28-11, 08:49 PM
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The receptacle is actually like a box screwed on the top of the floor. Is not an outlet level with the floor.
 
  #17  
Old 12-29-11, 06:27 PM
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That's how an electrician made the connection in the previous home. He said nowadays, for stoves and cooktops they no longer use plugs.
He was wrong. Many cooktops get hardwired from a junction box and freestanding ranges typically have a cord installed and get plugged into a range receptacle. Codes are about safety and are not just a set of rules made to be an inconvenience. Putting 2 wires (or 3 wires) under one lug designed for one wire, such as it sounds like you have done, is a code violation and not safe. If you are sincerely interested in doing it right and having a safe installation, someone on the site will help you. That being said, if you continue to want to jerry rig things and create a fire hazard, you won't find much help on this site.
 
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