Opinions on AFCI breakers
#1
12-05-11, 07:22 PM
Opinions on AFCI breakers
I am going to be in my panel for another reason, and was looking at info on the AFCI breakers now being installed by code on new construction. Our house is a 2006 build and does not have them. Can anyone offer any info on whether or not to install some or not? If so and not doing all breakers, which ones to do (bedroom etc). Thanks.
#2
12-05-11, 08:45 PM
AFCI breakers protect your home against fires caused by damaged wiring and cords, and also provide a pretty good level of GFCI protection against shocks due to water contact. They also introduce a small chance of nuisance trips. By the most recent code (2011), AFCI breakers are required on all 15A and 20A circuits which serve receptacles or lights in any living space room (bedroom, den, dining, living, rec room, etc). They are not required in kitchens, baths or "utility" areas. You are not required to upgrade the existing breakers, but you can if you choose.
#4
12-05-11, 08:52 PM
Originally Posted by ibpooks
AFCI breakers protect your home against fires caused by damaged wiring and cords, and also provide a pretty good level of GFCI protection against shocks due to water contact. They also introduce a small chance of nuisance trips. By the most recent code (2011), AFCI breakers are required on all 15A and 20A circuits which serve receptacles or lights in any living space room (bedroom, den, dining, living, rec room, etc). They are not required in kitchens, baths or "utility" areas. You are not required to upgrade the existing breakers, but you can if you choose.
#5
12-06-11, 07:20 AM
Just throwing out another opinion...
The main reasons for developing and requiring AFCIs was I think two major electrical issues: First, there have been a lot of house fires due to poorly maintained extension cords being shoved up behind a bed or desk, over time bending and wearing through the insulation, causing a spark. Similarly, extension cords run under carpets, high traffic areas, etc. I've also heard that they help with the issue of putting a nail in the wall when hanging a picture and hitting a wire.
In my house, I'm careful with electrical cords, use flat plugs when needed, rarely use extension cords, etc. I sleep just fine knowing that I don't have AFCI protection. On the other hand, I'm fully up to code/date on my smoke detectors, interconnected between floors, batteries replaced, etc.
Of course, it all is what helps you sleep at night. I understand the AFCI technology has gotten better over the past few years reducing nuisance trips.
Good luck either way!
The main reasons for developing and requiring AFCIs was I think two major electrical issues: First, there have been a lot of house fires due to poorly maintained extension cords being shoved up behind a bed or desk, over time bending and wearing through the insulation, causing a spark. Similarly, extension cords run under carpets, high traffic areas, etc. I've also heard that they help with the issue of putting a nail in the wall when hanging a picture and hitting a wire.
In my house, I'm careful with electrical cords, use flat plugs when needed, rarely use extension cords, etc. I sleep just fine knowing that I don't have AFCI protection. On the other hand, I'm fully up to code/date on my smoke detectors, interconnected between floors, batteries replaced, etc.
Of course, it all is what helps you sleep at night. I understand the AFCI technology has gotten better over the past few years reducing nuisance trips.
Good luck either way!
#6
12-06-11, 07:32 AM
Originally Posted by Zorfdt
Just throwing out another opinion...
The main reasons for developing and requiring AFCIs was I think two major electrical issues: First, there have been a lot of house fires due to poorly maintained extension cords being shoved up behind a bed or desk, over time bending and wearing through the insulation, causing a spark. Similarly, extension cords run under carpets, high traffic areas, etc. I've also heard that they help with the issue of putting a nail in the wall when hanging a picture and hitting a wire.
In my house, I'm careful with electrical cords, use flat plugs when needed, rarely use extension cords, etc. I sleep just fine knowing that I don't have AFCI protection. On the other hand, I'm fully up to code/date on my smoke detectors, interconnected between floors, batteries replaced, etc.
Of course, it all is what helps you sleep at night. I understand the AFCI technology has gotten better over the past few years reducing nuisance trips.
Good luck either way!
The main reasons for developing and requiring AFCIs was I think two major electrical issues: First, there have been a lot of house fires due to poorly maintained extension cords being shoved up behind a bed or desk, over time bending and wearing through the insulation, causing a spark. Similarly, extension cords run under carpets, high traffic areas, etc. I've also heard that they help with the issue of putting a nail in the wall when hanging a picture and hitting a wire.
In my house, I'm careful with electrical cords, use flat plugs when needed, rarely use extension cords, etc. I sleep just fine knowing that I don't have AFCI protection. On the other hand, I'm fully up to code/date on my smoke detectors, interconnected between floors, batteries replaced, etc.
Of course, it all is what helps you sleep at night. I understand the AFCI technology has gotten better over the past few years reducing nuisance trips.
Good luck either way!
#7
12-06-11, 07:46 AM
Member
I've got about 6 GE AFCI's in the panel, new in 2005. There has only been one false trip, and that was due to a lightning hit the property took a few years ago. It did burn up a power supply I had feeding the boat as a charger. So, no issues with the GE breakers.
#8
12-06-11, 07:54 AM
Good to know. I would be using Square D homeline breakers. I read they were recalled back in '04 but have since been corrected.
Originally Posted by telecom guy
I've got about 6 GE AFCI's in the panel, new in 2005. There has only been one false trip, and that was due to a lightning hit the property took a few years ago. It did burn up a power supply I had feeding the boat as a charger. So, no issues with the GE breakers.
#11
12-11-11, 03:12 PM
Originally Posted by madmatt76
Sorry, I missed that. Not positive, but I think it was 2005 or 2006 build.
#12
12-11-11, 03:45 PM
Originally Posted by CasualJoe
Then I am a little surprised you don't already have AFCI breakers for the bedroom outlets.
#13
12-11-11, 04:02 PM
Originally Posted by madmatt76
With how cheap this builder was, I am not surprised.....rolling eyes
#14
12-11-11, 04:38 PM
Originally Posted by CasualJoe
Inspectors generally don't care what it costs for a builder to comply with code. Was your house built with permits and inspections?
#15
12-11-11, 08:06 PM
That's a definite possibility. The local jurisdiction may not have adopted the latest code till much later or they could have amended the version that was adopted. If I remember correctly, AFCI breakers first appeared in the 2002 NEC, but weren't required till about the early part of 2003. I am working strictly from memory on this, but I do remember they weren't required till mid way into the code cycle.
#16
12-11-11, 08:19 PM
Originally Posted by CasualJoe
That's a definite possibility. The local jurisdiction may not have adopted the latest code till much later or they could have amended the version that was adopted. If I remember correctly, AFCI breakers first appeared in the 2002 NEC, but weren't required till about the early part of 2003. I am working strictly from memory on this, but I do remember they weren't required till mid way into the code cycle.
#17
12-14-11, 04:31 PM
I'd just like to add that most AFCI breakers have GFCI functionality, it's not as good as a GFCI outlet or breaker. Most (almost all) of the AFCI breakers require a 50mA difference to trip as a ground fault, where a GFCI outlet or breaker usually trips at only 5mA.
As far as breakers labeled as AFCI combination, this means a combination of serial and parallel arc fault. I believe all newly made AFCI breakers are now required to be AFCI combination breakers.
They do make AFCI combation with GFCI breakers (that do trip at 5mA), but it seems Lowe's and Home Depot doesn't carry them. They're supposedly available online, and some breaker manufacturers still haven't made them.
So, if you use an AFCI breaker, unless it's one of the rare ones that trips at 5mA, still make sure to use GFI outlets where you would otherwise need one.
As far as breakers labeled as AFCI combination, this means a combination of serial and parallel arc fault. I believe all newly made AFCI breakers are now required to be AFCI combination breakers.
They do make AFCI combation with GFCI breakers (that do trip at 5mA), but it seems Lowe's and Home Depot doesn't carry them. They're supposedly available online, and some breaker manufacturers still haven't made them.
So, if you use an AFCI breaker, unless it's one of the rare ones that trips at 5mA, still make sure to use GFI outlets where you would otherwise need one.
#18
12-14-11, 05:33 PM
Member
The real question is how necessary are AFCI breakers and are they something forced on the consumer by the electrical manufacturing industry.
#19
12-14-11, 05:51 PM
Originally Posted by Wayne Mitchell
The real question is how necessary are AFCI breakers and are they something forced on the consumer by the electrical manufacturing industry.
