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Photos with questions about building I am trying to get power to.

Photos with questions about building I am trying to get power to.

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  #1  
Old 02-13-12, 08:12 PM
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Photos with questions about building I am trying to get power to.

I got the photo bucket so I will attach link to my album of photos I asked questions on the photos.
Basically I am going to run wire to a buildings juncton box. The building will have a 110 heating/airconditioner window unit and also run a tv and cable box maybe computer and it has two overhead lights. I was told that a 60 amp circuit could be installed and wires run through conduit to this building where I would install a 100 amp ciruit box and a 8ft ground. The pictures I have included are of the work I am planning to do.

The 100 amp circuit box I was wondering does it need to be attach to the wall inside the building directly above the junction box or can I get rid of the junction box and just install the circuit box in its place (of course accommodate for a larger spot?

I have many other questions that I attached to each photo, any help at all will be greatly appreciated since I will be doing this and have virtually no electrical experience.

Also is the only power that I need to cut off when I attempt this my circuit box at my house or is there another place I need to shut it off like calling my power company?

Once again Thanks so much for any help
Stacy

Pictures by Amber_Holmgren - Photobucket
 
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  #2  
Old 02-13-12, 09:31 PM
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I was told that a 60 amp circuit could be installed and wires run through conduit to this building where I would install a 100 amp ciruit box and a 8ft ground.
Assuming less then 100 feet you will need two black #6, one #6 white, and one #10 green or bare copper THWN. Usually a ground bar isn't included with a breaker box. You will probably have to buy and add a ground bar to the the breaker box. If you have more then six breakers you will need a disconnect. The 100 amp breaker that will be included with your panel if you buy a main panel kit will be fine for that.

The 100 amp circuit box I was wondering does it need to be attach to the wall inside the building directly above the junction box or can I get rid of the junction box and just install the circuit box in its place (of course accommodate for a larger spot?
The wires should go straight to the 100 amp breaker.

Also is the only power that I need to cut off when I attempt this my circuit box at my house or is there another place I need to shut it off like calling my power company?
Turning off the main breaker should be enough. Remember though there will still be power around the main breaker even when off.
 
  #3  
Old 02-14-12, 06:07 AM
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The 100 amp circuit box I was wondering does it need to be attach to the wall inside the building directly above the junction box or can I get rid of the junction box and just install the circuit box in its place (of course accommodate for a larger spot?

The wires should go straight to the 100 amp breaker.

Well maybe I need to take my questions back off the pictures and include them in here, um I was asking with this question "In the building not my house can I just get rid of the junction box and install the 100 amp circuit instead box instead? So I guess you mean I could cut a larger hole in the wall and attach the new circuit box and attach the wires.

I was told that a 60 amp circuit could be installed and wires run through conduit to this building where I would install a 100 amp ciruit box and a 8ft ground.

Assuming less then 100 feet you will need two black #6, one #6 white, and one #10 green or bare copper THWN. Usually a ground bar isn't included with a breaker box. You will probably have to buy and add a ground bar to the the breaker box. If you have more then six breakers you will need a disconnect. The 100 amp breaker that will be included with your panel if you buy a main panel kit will be fine for that.

In my photos I mentioned that the building was more than 100 ft appx. 120 or so. I appreciate the wire size but I guess that is not the size since it is more.

Well I was hoping with pictures I would have more help with my questions but I guess not, anyways thanks.

Just feeling hopeless
Stacy
 

Last edited by Tolyn Ironhand; 02-14-12 at 07:14 AM.
  #4  
Old 02-14-12, 07:29 AM
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What you want to install is a called a subpanel. Do a Google search on that and you'll find plenty of information on what is required and how to do it. It isn't difficult; you just have to do it right.

You may want to check with your local building department before going too far with this. You'll need a permit anyway. But in many places, homeowners cannot legally do electrical work even on their own house.
 
  #5  
Old 02-14-12, 07:32 AM
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I know you were trying to make it easier with the pictures but it just made it harder on me. Also my mind glitches a bit at 'circuit box". You have a main panel (main breaker box) and a subpanel.

#6 should be fine at 120 feet because you will probably never draw full load.

<Opinion> Your making this harder on us and you by not just asking how to do it and letting us ask questions and give answers.
 
  #6  
Old 02-14-12, 07:49 AM
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While the pictures are very helpful, posting your questions on photobucket instead of here does not work very well. I will try to answer your questions directly here which may repeat what Ray has mentioned.

Pitcs 1-3 I would leave the box and PVC pipe alone. You will not get anything else in these as they will likely have large wires in them. Your ground is not shown is the pictures.

If I brought those wires from the 60 amp circuit that I install at circuit box through the box underneath house, would I be able to run the new wires through conduit next to this conduit and then underground and off to this building?
Pict 4: Cou could run a new conduit next to this one but you will have to be VERY careful digging so you do not hit any of the other wires/condiut. That group or black,red,yellow,green wires appear to be for your well.

pict 5: I suggest leaving this alone. You can safely open it and take a look but you will like find a mess of wire or large wires.

This is where I need to add the 60 amp?
Pict 7: Yes

question=Will the two wires coming from the 60 amp circuit I install go out through this opening to the box underneath the house then in its own conduit pipe to the building?
Pict 8: I suggest going through your own opening/conduit

These are the two wires coming from 60 amp circuit, and I am wondering why no 3rd ground comes from where they do. Just trying to find out if this is how my wire should look like when I have it coming from building.
Pict 9: You can not use this cable for underground installation. You must use THWN, XHHW (in conduit), or Direct burial cable.

Pict 10: Wire size can be hard to identify. You need #6 copper or #4 Aluminum wire for 60 amps.

These are the two wires coming form pole, the other two coming from pole are connected to these two side bars which I assume are grounds. Does this circuit box to my home which is 200 amp have an 8 ft ground and if so where do you find them?
Pict 11: Yes. Follow the large bare copper wire from the left side of the panel. The largest will go to your water pipe. The other one will go to the ground rod.

Wondering were to drill and put the wire.
Photo 12: I would try to come from underneath for the cleanest look. If you don't care about looks then do whatever is easiest.

Pict 13: It is too bad that the siders cut this box to that size. The box needs a mudring to be able to attach devices to it. Or is this where your feed is going to come in?
 

Last edited by Tolyn Ironhand; 02-14-12 at 08:05 AM.
  #7  
Old 02-14-12, 10:33 AM
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Thanks everyone,
Tolyn Ironhand on picuture 13 you said "Pict 13: It is too bad that the siders cut this box to that size. The box needs a mudring to be able to attach devices to it. Or is this where your feed is going to come in?

I want to get rid of this and cut the hole in the wall larger and attach the 100 amp panel to this or like where my feed is going to go out the panel I install in this building. Should I place this panel directly above this and then connect these wires to it? Yes this is where feed is coming in.

I saw 8ft ground at lowes, this will be at the new building and does it just go directly into the ground metal to dirt?

md2lgyk,
You said "You may want to check with your local building department before going too far with this. You'll need a permit anyway. But in many places, homeowners cannot legally do electrical work even on their own house".

I live in a rural area on acreage, I dont plan on moving and selling and am out of city limits, so is permits still required or is that if I sell only.

With the pictures and all do you all think this is still a doable job for a novice?

I will check out subpanels and do more research. I am trying. With all the research I am doing here, I figure if I'd not went to nursing school I would have been an electrician.

Thanks Stacy
 
  #8  
Old 02-14-12, 11:14 AM
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Whether or not you need a permit or can legally do the electrical work depends entirely on what the rules are where you live. You simply need to check and not assume anything just because you're not in city limits - that only affects who you would get the permit from. And whether or not you ever intend to sell is irrelevant.

I too live in a rural area on acreage, don't ever plan to sell, and am out of city limits. Besides one for building my house (which I did myself), I had to get a permit and inspection for a pre-manufactured tool shed that just sits on the ground and has no electric or water to it. When it comes to some things, take nothing for granted.
 
  #9  
Old 02-14-12, 11:24 AM
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If that is where you feed is then yes, you can get rid of that box and run your feed and circuit cables into that. Is that conduit on the bottom going to outside? You might have a tough time getting 3 #6 wires plus the ground through that. You might want to install a larger one for your feed.

It worries me a little that I only see one cable in that box. Is the inside all finished? If it is, you will more work cut out for you as you will need a dedicated circuit for your AC/heater.
 
  #10  
Old 02-14-12, 11:54 AM
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Thanks, I will check it out, and also I have checked out subpanel and I am getting lots and lots of step by step info Thanks so much for that.
 
  #11  
Old 02-14-12, 12:04 PM
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Ok thanks for I will install a larger conduit I didnt know how large the #6 feed are. Guess I need to check that out.
It worries me you saying uh the A/c and heater may have problems and need its own dedicatied circuit. It does plug into 110


The Fedders AZEY08f2A is a compact air conditioner conveniently fitting into the window. Whether itís the 8000 BTUs of cooling power or 3500 BTUs of heating this window air conditioner and heater is equipped for any climate. The electronic thermostat and remote control will keep the environment comfortable and fresh.

This is all becoming a big nightmare.
Anyone can you give me a guess how much this would cost to have done by an electrician including how much for a dedicated circuit for the heating ac window unit. I live in Oklahoma if that helps with pricing, I am hoping it would be no more than 1700.00 Parts including in that price.
 

Last edited by StacyH2009; 02-14-12 at 12:23 PM.
  #12  
Old 02-14-12, 01:43 PM
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The AC/heater is 9 amps according to the web. It should be on it own.

It is hard to say for sure the cost but to reduce the cost you could cut it down to a 120/240v 30 amp circuit to the shed. For what you are proposing to be running out there 30 amps would likely be plenty. Then you would only need #10 wire.

Depending on how hard to trench in your soil $1700 might be doable. Why not contact some electrical contractors and get some bids? Most cases 3 is enough bids to get to get a good idea on cost. IMO - I don't like contractors that charge for bids.
 
  #13  
Old 02-14-12, 08:08 PM
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The 3 #6s and the ground could be run in a 3/4" PVC conduit. A 1" would give you a little more room and an easier pull.
 
  #14  
Old 02-14-12, 08:41 PM
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Originally Posted by pcboss View Post
The 3 #6s and the ground could be run in a 3/4" PVC conduit. A 1" would give you a little more room and an easier pull.
I appreciate the input, Iam getting more familiar with the sizes of wires and conduit pvc.

Thanks to all for the help and this includes Tolyn Ironhand, pcboss, md2lgyk, and ray2047. Ray is always the first to respond and I do appreciate it. You guys who are all I am sure very busy yourself do a great service for people you dont even know with the advice you give.

Just one more last question.
Tolyn Ironhand the a/c heater that I am gonna use as a window unit, will I still have to dedicate it to its own circuit even though it can plug into 110?
Is that a definite? I guess the people who wired it just wired the 4 plugs and two overhead lights I didnt know that it can only handle so much power, I thought if you could plug it in it would be ok.
Also if I did the trench myself I am sure that will cut the price if I had someone do it alot, so maybe if I didnt do it myself you think 1700 or so may do it?

Anyways me calling that circuit box a sub panel has been so very helpful in a search engine.

Thanks you all for your time and thoughts.
Stacy in Oklahoma
 
  #15  
Old 02-15-12, 11:18 AM
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I don't know many electricians who like to dig trenches so, yes, I'm sure that would save you money on the cost of the job.

Looking at the specs for your ac/heater it say it is 9 amps. The fact that it is 120 volt doesn't really matter. So if your shed is all wired on one circuit you would have:
AC/Heat: 9 amps
Computer: 3 amps (guessing)
2 lights: 2 amps (figured 2 60watt bulbs each)
tv/cablebox: 3 amps (guessing)

So, a guess of your load is about 17 amps if everything is on at the same time. If all this is on the same circuit you could be in trouble if the existing circuit is only good for 15 amps (#14 wire). Adding a dedicated circuit might not be a big deal if the shed is off the ground (which I thought it was).

More options: I'm starting to think that you might be wiring this overkill. If this is all your going to use out in the shed, maybe you should think about running a multiwire 20 amp circuit. (which would be two 20 amp circuits) You would then not need a sub panel or anything like that. I hate painting myself in a corner and limiting the options when it comes to electrical, but if that is all you need, it might be a good option.
 
  #16  
Old 02-17-12, 10:40 AM
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Originally Posted by Tolyn Ironhand View Post
I don't know many electricians who like to dig trenches so, yes, I'm sure that would save you money on the cost of the job.

Looking at the specs for your ac/heater it say it is 9 amps. The fact that it is 120 volt doesn't really matter. So if your shed is all wired on one circuit you would have:
AC/Heat: 9 amps
Computer: 3 amps (guessing)
2 lights: 2 amps (figured 2 60watt bulbs each)
tv/cablebox: 3 amps (guessing)

So, a guess of your load is about 17 amps if everything is on at the same time. If all this is on the same circuit you could be in trouble if the existing circuit is only good for 15 amps (#14 wire). Adding a dedicated circuit might not be a big deal if the shed is off the ground (which I thought it was).

More options: I'm starting to think that you might be wiring this overkill. If this is all your going to use out in the shed, maybe you should think about running a multiwire 20 amp circuit. (which would be two 20 amp circuits) You would then not need a sub panel or anything like that. I hate painting myself in a corner and limiting the options when it comes to electrical, but if that is all you need, it might be a good option.

Hey after thinking about all this my thoughts were, what if I took #6 copper wire and took it out to the building myself even installed a sub panel, would that reduce the cost greatly for the electrician to connect the building to the subpanel including a dedicated circuit for the heating and air. I know you recommend having people come out and give estimates which I intend to do but i was wondering how much do you think it may cost?

Thanks Stacy
 
  #17  
Old 02-17-12, 11:03 AM
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I'm leaning towards what Tolyn is recommending, a multi-wire circuit which will give you two 20A circuits with minimal cost and less work.

If it were me, I'd start with a 2-pole, 20A breaker in your main panel, going to 12/3 (+ ground) UF (outdoor rated) cable buried 18" deep. Sleeve it in a foot or two of PVC conduit when it comes out of the ground and goes into the building. Right inside the building, install a double-pole switch in a standard junction box for your disconnect. Then branch it off into two separate sets of receptacles/lights.

Other than digging, the whole project should only take a few hours and cost somewhere around $150-$200.

A subpanel will give you much more upgrade capacity, but it doesn't sound like you'll be needing more than those two 20A circuits.
 
  #18  
Old 02-17-12, 05:50 PM
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Ok, this sounds good, the only other thing I may add in this place would be a microwave., I once thought this may work but people were talking about voltage dropping the farther you get.
Anyways so, if I got circuit is that 1 or 2 20 Amp. If your talking a total of 40 amps or meaning the 2 pole one side having 20 amps and the other side having 20 amp. (just wanting to be sure), the wire then would be copper size 12 with 2 positive and neutural and ground right?
The double pole switch would it still work in my junction box? so my wires that are already in my junction box would connect to one of the poles and the others I would connect (the wires that I would dedicate to my heater/ac) what size wires would you recommend for this heater/ac.
And since building is finished and not wired for the heater/ac, best recommendation on doing this.
Thanks
Stacy
 
  #19  
Old 02-17-12, 08:17 PM
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If your talking a total of 40 amps or meaning the 2 pole one side having 20 amps and the other side having 20 amp
No. 20a on each circuit.

just wanting to be sure), the wire then would be copper size 12 with 2 positive and neutural and ground right?
No positives. Two hots, neutral, and ground.You could use #10 if your worried about voltage drop.

The double pole switch would it still work in my junction box? so my wires that are already in my junction box would connect to one of the poles and the others I would connect
That is correct. Neutral to neutral, grounds to grounds and if metal box grounds pigtailed to box.

what size wires would you recommend for this heater/ac.
#12

And since building is finished and not wired for the heater/ac, best recommendation on doing this.
Put an extension ring on the Jbox and run conduit from it.
 
  #20  
Old 02-18-12, 03:33 AM
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Perfect Ray
Thanks I appreciate your response.

Stacy
 
  #21  
Old 02-18-12, 05:18 AM
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It is very hard to give an estimate without seeing the job, and I have no idea on labor rates in your area. A rough guess would be but:

If you trenched in the wire/cable and left both ends disconnected, and just wanted to have an electrician come out and do the final hookup, you would be likely looking at about $4-500.

UF (outdoor rated) cable buried 18" deep
Direct burial wire/cable is required to be buried to 24" deep, unless it is GFCI protected.
 
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