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Is a 60A circuit sufficient for a cooktop and double oven?

Is a 60A circuit sufficient for a cooktop and double oven?

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  #41  
Old 03-25-12, 04:52 PM
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If you remove the breaker not in use you'll have to install panel blanks. They usually cost a couple bucks each. The easiest thing to do is leave the breakers in place, just don't use them and label them as "Spare".
 
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  #42  
Old 03-25-12, 08:51 PM
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Thanks that is basically what I did so I think I am good.
 
  #43  
Old 04-19-12, 02:57 PM
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Ok I've looked through a lot of outlets and junction boxes and have some things to report. It seems like all of the outlets I've looked at are wired with copper wire with the exceptions of the ones that I've rewired/disconnected already. That is the good news. The bad news is that all of the three wire that I have found is pure aluminum (not even copper clad). I was able to replace one of these wires in the first floor bathroom. There is also one 3-wire in each bedroom which supplies power from the light switches to the outlets. One outlet is supplied by the red wire which the switch can turn off an on and the other outlets are supplied with the always on black wire. I already have a plan on how to replace these. It will involve cutting some drywall, pulling the staples out, taping some new copper wire to the aluminum, pulling through the attic and down through the switchbox. It will be a lot of work but is relatively straightforward. It will also give me an opportunity to send wiring for ceiling lights that I plan to install later (no ceiling lights in any bedroom).

The other bad news that I discovered is there is an aluminum 3 wire that goes from the second floor switch box to a first floor switchbox to control the second floor hallway lights. This one looks like it will be supremely annoying to replace. It looks like I will need to cut a lot of pieces of drywall to replace it. Do you guys have any suggestions for how to deal with this? Thanks!
 
  #44  
Old 04-19-12, 03:29 PM
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The aluminum wiring does not need to be removed, just abandoned in place. Generally new cable can be fished just by removing a box and using the opening for fishing. No need to remove any Sheetrock.

From second floor to first if no existing hole you may need to remove a a small amount of Sheetrock to drill a hole or temporarily remove a second floor receptacle and use a flex drill bit to drill into the first floor wall cavity.
 
  #45  
Old 04-19-12, 04:32 PM
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I forgot to mention that the switch on the first floor is on the exterior wall and the switch in the second floor is on an interior floor that is about 20 feet away from the first floor location. The only way I think it could work is to shoot a wire up in the attic and then down over the area where the first floor switch is. The other issue is there is fiberglass insulation in the walls. Do you think its still possible to fish the wire without removing a lot of drywall? Thank you.
 
  #46  
Old 04-19-12, 04:42 PM
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I'd try. I'd try to use a fish tape to force my way through.
 
  #47  
Old 04-19-12, 04:53 PM
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The other bad news that I discovered is there is an aluminum 3 wire that goes from the second floor switch box to a first floor switchbox to control the second floor hallway lights. This one looks like it will be supremely annoying to replace. It looks like I will need to cut a lot of pieces of drywall to replace it. Do you guys have any suggestions for how to deal with this?
I would run the new cable down from the first floor location, then up to the attic somewhere, then down to the second floor location.
 
  #48  
Old 04-19-12, 05:24 PM
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This is a good idea. I can drop the wire to the basement then towards the plumbing vent stack and go up all the way to the attic then over and down where the second floor switch is.

What should I do with the aluminum wire, nut off and label as disconnected?
 
  #49  
Old 04-19-12, 08:31 PM
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What should I do with the aluminum wire, nut off and label as disconnected?
No. Cut as short as possible on both ends and shove it into the wall so it can't be accidentally used.
 
  #50  
Old 04-22-12, 05:27 PM
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Ok I have an update. A buddy and I took a 3-wire from the attic and dropped it down to the basement next to the vent stack. We have to remove the floor in the attic to drop it down to the switchbox but we are well underway.

We also started labeling the circuit breaker as much of the circuits were unlabeled. We were shocked to find that 4 bedrooms, 2 bathrooms, the hallway switches and outlet and the attic light were all on 2 circuits. Yes thats "two".

I also think a couple of circuits in the first floor are possibly overloaded:
20A - Garbage disposal unit is sharing power with one GFCI outlet above kitchen counter
20A - Refrigerator is sharing a 20A circuit with one 20A outlet in the dining room (someone must have tapped it somewhere and added the outlet...)
15A - Kitchen lights, 1/2 bath lights/vent/gfci outlet, outdoor flood lights, kitchen hood are sharing a 15A circuit.

The problem is I am running out of space on my SIEMENS panel now. Its a modern 200A circuit breaker with about 40 spaces for circuit breakers.

Here is a rough plan of attack, please let me know what you think:

1 New 15A circuit for lighting of bedrooms, closets, hallway, attic, bathrooms as well as bathroom vents (all lighting will be CFLs/LED and vents will be energy star rated)
Reuse the two 15A circuits currently up there for the outlets of two bedrooms
2 New 15A circuits for outlets of other bedrooms
2 New 20A circuits, one for each bathroom (we will need to replace the single gang boxes with double gang boxes to fit everything)
1 New 20A circuit for the kitchen outlet so the garbage disposal unit has its own power
1 New 20A circuit for the half bathroom GFCI
Leave the refrigerator sharing a circuit with the one dining room outlet or somehow determine where that outlet is wired and wire it with the other dining room outlets so the refrigerator has its own circuit

I believe there are only 7 spaces left in my panel so this plan would exhaust all of them sadly. What do you guys think of tandem breakers? I was planning on installed AFIs for most of my circuits but I don't think I can do that with tandem breakers. Would a subpanel be a better option? Thanks all.
 
  #51  
Old 04-22-12, 06:07 PM
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20A - Garbage disposal unit is sharing power with one GFCI outlet above kitchen counter
Shouldn't be anywhere close to an overload. I trust the garbage disposal is fed ahead of the GFCI protection.

20A - Refrigerator is sharing a 20A circuit with one 20A outlet in the dining room (someone must have tapped it somewhere and added the outlet...)
Unconventional, but probably nowhere near an overload. Refrigerators draw very little power.

15A - Kitchen lights, 1/2 bath lights/vent/gfci outlet, outdoor flood lights, kitchen hood are sharing a 15A circuit
This one sounds like it may be close to overloaded. But if all of the lights are CFLs or other high-efficiency lamps, maybe not.

We were shocked to find that 4 bedrooms, 2 bathrooms, the hallway switches and outlet and the attic light were all on 2 circuits. Yes thats "two".
Yeah, this sounds like a problem. And this:
1 New 15A circuit for lighting of bedrooms, closets, hallway, attic, bathrooms as well as bathroom vents
sounds like a reasonable solution.

2 New 15A circuits for outlets of other bedrooms
Seriously? How many receptacles are there in these bedrooms? One 15A circuit should be able to handle a couple of lights and six or so receptacles, IMX.
2 New 20A circuits, one for each bathroom (we will need to replace the single gang boxes with double gang boxes to fit everything)
Why? Planning on running an 1800W hair dryer in each of them at the same time?

1 New 20A circuit for the kitchen outlet so the garbage disposal unit has its own power
Doesn't seem necessary. If you really want to separate them, why not run a 15A circuit to the disposer?

1 New 20A circuit for the half bathroom GFCI
You must foresee a lot of hair dryers all running at once!
 
  #52  
Old 04-22-12, 07:26 PM
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There are 3-4 outlets in each bedroom. I am not planning to run two blowdryers at the same time right now but when my daughter grows up it could happen. Right now I have the kitchen wall open. Once that wall is closed I will not be able to get wires up to the attic easily so I am trying to wire for the future so I don't have to deal with this again, but I am keeping your points in mind. I may just split the two existing 15A circuits between the two bedrooms and not add two more.

Let me ask you some follow up questions:
Lets say we put a small microwave or toaster on the circuit that is shared with the garbage disposal unit. Wouldn't the circuit trip if both are run simultaneously?

We don't have central A/C so if we use wall units in the bedrooms two 15A circuits may not be sufficient with multiple A/Cs on. Do you agree?

Thank you.
 
  #53  
Old 04-22-12, 09:53 PM
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Lets say we put a small microwave or toaster on the circuit that is shared with the garbage disposal unit. Wouldn't the circuit trip if both are run simultaneously?
Microwaves and toaster ovens - especially - can draw a lot of power. But the answer to your question is to read the amp draw of the garbage disposer, convert that to watts, and subtract that from the full capacity for non-continuous loads of a 20A circuit, ~2,400W, and see what you have left for your plug-in appliances.

We don't have central A/C so if we use wall units in the bedrooms two 15A circuits may not be sufficient with multiple A/Cs on. Do you agree?
Yes. Just one wall-shaker can overload a 15A circuit (full capacity for a continuous load on a 15A circuit is only 1,440W.) Check the specs and draw of the units you will be using. Many units may require a dedicated 120V circuit, and some units require 240V.

As you noted, right now, while you have the kitchen wall open, is the ideal time to add any wiring you may need in the future. Hmm, have you considered installing 1 or 2 raceways (conduits), with or without a pull string in each, before you close that wall?

I may just split the two existing 15A circuits between the two bedrooms and not add two more.
My preferred plan is to separate the lighting from the receptacles and use 15A circuits for the lighting and 20A circuits for the receptacles. Lighting isn't much of a load, especially with the latest high-efficiency lamps. The stuff we plug in can add up in a hurry. Other reasons include that you can plug in some work lights and tools if you need to work on the lighting circuit, you can have the overhead light on while you troubleshoot a receptacle, and having just one cord-and-plug connected lamp plus an overhead fixture mean that two circuits have to fail for the room to go completely dark. Just saying.
 
  #54  
Old 04-23-12, 11:39 AM
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Just touching on a couple things:

Lets say we put a small microwave or toaster on the circuit that is shared with the garbage disposal unit. Wouldn't the circuit trip if both are run simultaneously?
Depending on the appliance specs, this would be a violation. And yes it may trip the breaker, depending on appliance(s) being used.

20A - Refrigerator is sharing a 20A circuit with one 20A outlet in the dining room (someone must have tapped it somewhere and added the outlet...)
This is code complaint, and is done all the time. Example: Newer homes may have the kitchen refer receptacle serving the kitchen countertop receptacles—in turn serving the allowed spaces. One of the allowed spaces does include the dining room.
20A - Garbage disposal unit is sharing power with one GFCI outlet above kitchen counter
This is a violation
 
  #55  
Old 04-23-12, 04:49 PM
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Thanks. Ok I am sticking with my original plan except I decided to put a subpanel in my attic so I just send one thick wire up there instead of a bunch of smaller ones plus I can add more circuits after the wall is closed. I am planning on adding 3 15A and 2 20A circuits upstairs. In the future I plan to have someone install a central A/C in the house (not sure the amps they need for that). Since there aren't any ducts in the house they will probably install the blower in the attic so they will be able to use the sub panel. That makes 6 circuits that I will have within the next couple of years. I am thinking I want a panel with 10 spaces so that I have space for future needs.

Do you think 100A with 10 or more spaces plenty?
What gauge and type of wire do you recommend (not aluminum) to run a 100A subpanel about 100ish feet from my basement to the attic?
What brands of panels do you guys prefer? I currently have a Murray/Siemens. I prefer to purchase one that is Made in the USA. I would also prefer if they sell it at Home Depot since that is easy for me to go to and get breakers/accessories.

Thank you!
 
  #56  
Old 04-24-12, 05:51 AM
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I created a new thread for my subpanel questions here to prevent this thread from becoming 10 pages long. Thanks!
 
  #57  
Old 05-23-12, 08:52 PM
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Hello all,

I have a question going back to my original post about the double oven. Is it ok for the junction box for the double oven to be placed in the cabinet where the double oven gets installed? The double oven would have to be removed in order to get access to it. That is how it was installed originally but I want to find out if that is code compliant. Thank you.
 
  #58  
Old 05-25-12, 05:53 PM
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Any thoughts?
 
  #59  
Old 05-25-12, 07:38 PM
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Is it ok for the junction box for the double oven to be placed in the cabinet where the double oven gets installed?
That's where I usually see them - must be code compliant.
 

Last edited by Nashkat1; 05-26-12 at 06:26 AM.
  #60  
Old 05-26-12, 04:55 AM
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Two circuit breakers are now not in use. I set them to the off position and labeled them as NOT IN USE at the breaker, but I'm not sure if I am supposed to pull the breakers out and somehow cap those two empty spaces. What is the recommended method for dealing with disconnected breakers?
Normally you would either leave the unused breakers in place and mark them as "Spare" or remove them and install panel blanks. I'd just leave them in the panel.
 
  #61  
Old 07-01-12, 06:50 PM
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Wow, this was informative. In answer to the question of having the box in back of the double oven I would have to put in my 2 cents. I just installed a double oven and it weighs nearly 300 pounds. I know being a girly-girl I cannot get it out by myself and since I don't even weigh half of the oven, the only way to get to the electric would be to slide the oven out onto something the same height. My box is in a cabinet next to the oven.

Based on this post, I think I know my plan of action. The house had a coil electric cooktop - yuck - and a micro/oven combo. Both appliances were connected to the same 50 amp. I have now installed a 5 burner induction and a double oven. The cooktop says 50 amp and the double oven is 40 amp. Currently both are connected to 50 amp 6-3 aluminum because I had to get them operational. I NEVER put a load on both appliances but need to get it situated before Thanksgiving and Christmas because I can see having everything going then.

Based on what you guys were saying, I should run two copper lines and then I should be good to go. Thanks to the poster and to all who responded. Now I will adjust my plans accordingly and get the permit.
 
  #62  
Old 07-01-12, 07:05 PM
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Welcome to the forums!

In general, it leads to more clarity and more focused discussion to start a new thread rather than add on to one that has been quiet for awhile. But I can see how the discussion here really matched the questions you came in with. Is there anything you'd still like to discuss, or are you feeling pretty complete for now?
 
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