2 Pole 60 Amp GFCI Subpanel for hot tub question....

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Old 05-05-12, 04:57 PM
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2 Pole 60 Amp GFCI Subpanel for hot tub question....

I have an older Jacuzzi hot tub installed before GFCI was required. I'd like to upgrade to GFCI, but I have a Zinsco panel (It's in great shape) and I am unable to locate a zinsco 60 amp breaker with GFCI.... which leads me to a subpanel.

The jacuzzi is 240v only with 2 hots and an insulated ground run through RMC about 40' from the panel. My thought was to simply cut into the RMC about 20' away from the tub and install the GFCI panel, but all the GFCI's I've seen have a neutral pigtail, but the wires in the RMC don't include a neutral, only a ground. To further muddy the water, on a Zinsco main panel all the grounds terminate on the neutral bar. Do I just not use the pigtail or does the pigtail go to the insulated ground wire in this case as if it were a neutral?
 
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Old 05-05-12, 06:05 PM
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but I have a Zinsco panel (It's in great shape) and I am unable to locate a zinsco 60 amp breaker with GFCI.
To be expected since GFCIs were all all but unknown when Zinsco folded because of failures of its breakers. Panel may look good but that doesn't mean the breakers are.

but all the GFCI's I've seen have a neutral pigtail, but the wires in the RMC don't include a neutral, only a ground
For a 240v only circuit the neutral pigtail of the GFCI isn't used.
 
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Old 05-05-12, 06:30 PM
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For a 240v only circuit the neutral pigtail of the GFCI isn't used.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but, I think the breaker still needs the neutral connected for the internal circuitry.
 
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Old 05-06-12, 07:33 AM
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I believe Justin is correct. It's still not a big deal though. Just install a properly wired subpanel with a 4 wire feed keeping neutrals and grounds separated, as with any other subpanel, and install the 2 pole GFI in the subpanel. Only the two hot circuit conductors will terminate on the GFI breaker. Rather than go to all this expense and trouble, however, I'd stop playing Russian Roulette with the Zinsco panel and replace it while ahead of the game rather than being subject to having no power one day or worse yet, a house fire.

Zinsco folded because of failures of its breakers. Panel may look good but that doesn't mean the breakers are.
Actually, Zinsco was purchased by Sylvania and Sylvania continued the production well into the 1970s. I don't think that design was discontinued till somewhere in the very early 1980s, but I am not certain of the actual year. It may have been when some former Sylvania executives purchased the assets of Sylvania and started the Challenger Electric company.
 
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Old 05-06-12, 07:58 AM
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I have been corrected in the past for saying a neutral was needed and a quick Google before posting indicated that the neutral was not needed.
Note that the modern GFCI's other main way of detecting faults is to detect a sufficient difference - usually a difference of only about 30 milliamps - between the current flowing in one "hot" (for example a black wire) compared to the current flowing in the other "hot" (for example a red wire). Such a difference or imbalance must be caused by a leakage current going from one of the hots to ground without going through the protective ground wire: for example from a damp control switch that has cracked plastic insulation to a person's hand and then through his or her body to the damp floor in a kitchen or utility room. Note that no fault current would actually flow into the protective ground wire in such a fault condition. Source: Can you wire 240V GFCI without a neutral wire
true a straight 240v load does not need to have the neutral pigtail connected but many manufacures of hot tubs sometimes have 120 volt loads in their units (much like a dryer that is fed with 240v but has 120 v loads such as light, timers,ect.) the breaker still senses the incoming power with the outgoing power for an inbalance . all hut tubs i have wired do have a neutral for this reason ,but then again when you wire a 240v outlet on a temp pole it has to be gfi protected i think the manufactures of the 240v gfi breakers have to cover all bases weather a neutral load is preasent or not Source: 2 Pole GFCI Breaker No Neutral - Electrician Talk - Professional Electrical Contractors Forum
As always though I may be right or I may be wrong.
 
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Old 05-06-12, 08:06 AM
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true a straight 240v load does not need to have the neutral pigtail connected
That's news to me! Thanks for the correction Ray, I'll make that a mental note.
 
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