Electric door doesnt open when it should

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  #1  
Old 05-15-12, 09:10 PM
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Question Electric door doesnt open when it should

I wonder if you could help me. Problem regards electric door opener/strike.
The electric strike (door opener) obviously is on the door frame attached to the wall and then there's the door with its latch plate and 'tongue' going in and out.
The problem is this, if the door is opened (hence latch tongue not in contact with electric strike) or if the door is closed but the latch tongue is not out, is still within its compartment/latch (hence latch tongue is yet again not in contact with electric strike) then if one pushes the button to create a connection to open the door we can indeed hear the sound of it doing its job and one can feel the vibration. However, the minute the door is actually closed with the tongue within the door frame electrical latch then nothing happens, no sounds, no more current. How could this be? What is going wrong? and therefore what would need to be checked/fixed.
Both the electric door latch and the ringer upstairs have only 2 wires
thank you
 
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  #2  
Old 05-16-12, 03:38 AM
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To shorten your lengthy statement. The electric door latch doesn't work after the door is opened and then closed. Does it operate properly to allow you to open the door when the button is pressed? Have you removed the latch from the door striker? It could be the pressure of the door closing is moving a wire away from a contact. I would start there to ensure proper contact at all time with the electrical wiring.
 
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Old 05-16-12, 10:00 PM
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Question Door wont open when it should

Thanks for helping. I truly appreciate it. TO answer your questions: you write, "The electric door latch doesn't work after the door is opened and then closed.' No, not this. If the door is closed, therefore has the male (lip) within the female (mouth of the door frame strike) then nothing happens--no sound no vibration. It's as if the ringer button to create the contact has never been pushed.
Let me explain another way: Attached r 3 photos. 1- A-ElecDoorStrike -2- B-Door Latch and -3- C-Ringer. I have placed notes in the photos written in red.
photo A shows the door strike. This piece is inside the door frame which is attached to the outside wall. You'll note it has 2 wires and only 2. Those 2 wires are connected to 2 wires within the door frame (Again, here in the door frame as well there are only 2 wires). The strike has what you can call a female or a mouth. In photo B-Door Latch you'll notice the male/tongue. Photo3 shows the ringer. The ringer is upstairs-1 floor up-- from the door strike. The ringer also has only 2 wires which are attached in the only other 2 wires. This button has a small light which is always on. The button shown when pressed, sets of the door strike to buzz (the metal piece vibrates and in the process loosens itself and thereby no longer keeping the door lip/male locked).
What happens is this: If the male (tongue) is inside the female (whole) then when the upstairs ringer is pressed nothing is heard--as if there is no electricity, as if the button was never pressed. If on the other hand the male is not in the female then one can hear the door strike buzz and watch the metal piece vibrate.
I hope this helps.
 
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Old 05-17-12, 03:52 AM
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I know what it is and how it works, so details aren't necessary. Does the latch work at any time? With the door open? With the door closed? I think not with the door closed.
Where is the transformer that operates this latch? Have you pulled out the latch from the door frame and inspected the wiring to make sure there are no bare wires that can be touched by the latch on the door? If there are any, the latch will ground out the mechanism and it will not work.
 
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Old 05-17-12, 07:04 AM
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My interpretation of what is happening is this (pintree3, please correct me if I'm wrong):

When the door is open, the latch (mouth) works as expected. You press the button, you hear the electromagnet inside engage, and you can "open" the latch manually with your hand (as if the door was opening).

As soon as you close the door, when you press the button, nothing happens. You don't hear anything and the latch remains locked.

------

On commercial electric latches, there's a security feature built in that if you're pulling on the door, and press the button to release the latch, the latch will not open. It's part of the design to help prevent the latch from being forced open. One side effect of this, is if the "tongue" is tight against the latch when the door is closed, the latch won't open since it thinks it's being forced open. You may need to adjust the door and latch to ensure the "tongue" is loose inside the latch when the door is closed.
 
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Old 05-17-12, 03:14 PM
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Good catch on that one zorfdt. Didn't know that. OK, pintree, test time. With the door closed, press on the door to relieve any pressure on the latch and press the button. See if it works, and let us know.
 
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Old 05-17-12, 07:08 PM
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Question door strike miobehaviour

OK guys thanks a mil. Where is the transformer? It is 2 floors below the door opener hence one floor below the door (where the electric strike is). As to the wires they are well connected to each other making absolutely no contact with anything else. To answer the other questions:
From what is visible, it does not matter if or if not the door is open or closed. What matters is if the tongue/male is open or closed and whether it is making contact with the strike or not. The tongue/male can be set (manually) so it is always open--it always stays within the door, in its 'inside' position. If the male is released than at that point one can close and lock the door (manually with or without key or electrically). The problem therefore is, as you mentioned, when the male/tongue makes contact with the female/mouth/opening.
And now to answer your other Q's. Assuming the door is in a 'normal' position, with its male/tongue sticking out and the door is pulled the buzzing works on and off (I guess this yes and no is depending on the pressure being used--contact or no contact). If it is not pulled but pushed the buzzing sound does come up (hence pressure is better when pushed). Obviously though the minute you try to open the door it won't open since the pressure is back on/there is contact again. This would suggest that it may well be the pressure--the contact between the metal of the male and the metal of the female.
According to what Zorfdt said: "On commercial electric latches, there's a security feature built in that if you're pulling on the door, and press the button to release the latch, the latch will not open. It's part of the design to help prevent the latch from being forced open. One side effect of this, is if the "tongue" is tight against the latch when the door is closed, the latch won't open since it thinks it's being forced open. You may need to adjust the door and latch to ensure the "tongue" is loose inside the latch when the door is closed."
Though I very much doubt this is a 'commercial' electric latch there does seem to be a truth in your thinking, "It's part of the design to help prevent the latch from being forced open." and therefore also right in thinking, "if the "tongue" is tight against the latch when the door is
closed, the latch won't open"
However, "to adjust the door and latch to ensure the "tongue" is loose inside the latch when the door is closed" is NOT possible (see attached design) since the male's width/height/length is such so that it fits in snugly within the female. There is a hair's space to its width, and the same to its height. This leaves us with the length. The length of the tongue/male is sufficiently longer than the mouth/female's length. To place the door in such a position so that the length would not touch would require the door to leave a nice space between it and the frame (whereby a knife could be easily let in or cold or heat will have enough space to get in. No door anywhere has such a gap--besides as mentioned the the width and height would nevertheless still touch/make4 contact. In conclusion though this may seem like what the problem or solution may be, it can not. Or there must be a work-around since changing size of door latch/tongue, size of door strike/mouth or position of either is not possible. (Sorry for my constant long explanations, but it is the only way I know to make it clear (according to me at least).
 
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Last edited by pintree3; 05-17-12 at 07:10 PM. Reason: spelling errors
  #8  
Old 05-17-12, 08:14 PM
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Assuming the door is in a 'normal' position, with its male/tongue sticking out and the door is pulled the buzzing works on and off (I guess this yes and no is depending on the pressure being used--contact or no contact). If it is not pulled but pushed the buzzing sound does come up (hence pressure is better when pushed). Obviously though the minute you try to open the door it won't open since the pressure is back on/there is contact again. This would suggest that it may well be the pressure--the contact between the metal of the male and the metal of the female.
As I read this, I'm wondering if the problem might be that the strike and the latch are inverted, relative to each other, from the way they were designed to connect?
 
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Old 05-17-12, 09:15 PM
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The first thing to do is to pull the electric strike from the door jamb and note the voltage rating. The most common ratings are 12 and 24 volts although a few are 120 volts. Since the thing "buzzes" when it releases it is an AC model, the DC models are silent or at most just a faint click when they release.

Next, connect a voltmeter set to the appropriate range to the power input leads and measure the voltage when the button is pressed. It should be +/- 5% of the rated voltage. If it isn't then you need to find the transformer (assuming it is a low voltage and not a 120 volt strike) and test the voltage output at the transformer when the button is pushed. If the voltage is low at the strike but fine at the transformer then it is likely a wiring problem. If the voltage is low at the transformer whether or not the button is pressed or released then the problem is the transformer. If the voltage is normal when the button is released but drops severely when the button is pressed it could still be the transformer but more likely is the strike itself is bad. A new transformer is significantly less expensive than the strike so should be replaced first. If a new transformer still shows low voltage when the button is pressed then it is the strike itself that is bad.

Logical, systematic testing is far better than just guessing.
 
  #10  
Old 05-21-12, 08:58 PM
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door strike misbehaviour

Probelm Solved: in closer observation it seems that the problem was not really a problem in that it was a safety mechanism which prevented the door from opening - in other words to much pressure on the door caused it (to lock in and not open). Once the door was adjusted a little, with pressure released all went well (or even by pulling the door it would work)

thanks to all for ur help it was greatly appreciated. I could not have solved it without you.
 
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