Are these legal (in Canada)?

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  #1  
Old 05-30-12, 12:15 PM
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Are these legal (in Canada)?

Just a quick follow up thread to my previous Emergency Generator connection thread. (http://www.doityourself.com/forum/el...or-hookup.html)

I found a US company that will make the interlock plates for a fair bit cheaper then anywhere else. National Ram Electronics
My question is though, can this even be legal in Canada?
I am sure they are not CSA tested and/or approved, but really, it is a simple item.
 
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Old 05-30-12, 02:25 PM
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Since there is no mention of there devices having been submitted to, let alone approved by, any NRTL (Nationally Recognized Testing Laboratory) I would assume that they are NOT legal anywhere that a model code has been enacted into law. Quite honestly, any reasonable handy person could make an interlock but it wouldn't be legal in most places.

Furthermore, after examining (not too closely) the examples shown I AM certain that these devices would NOT be approved for the simple fact that the National Electrical Code (US) specifies that the device may not be capable of being defeated by simply removing the cover of the panelboard. It is this particular requirement that so often is the stickler in having interlocks approved.

Honestly Mike, you're better off with a transfer panel or a stand-alone transfer switch and sub-panel.
 
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Old 05-31-12, 06:29 AM
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You have pretty much confirmed my thoughts.
 
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Old 05-31-12, 02:42 PM
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Having done some limited research it may not be a NEC requirement that interlocks not be able to be defeated by removing the cover, but an Underwriter's Laboratories (UL) requirement. It is a moot point in my area as the electrical inspectors are quite adamant about any equipment being "Listed" (by UL or other NRTL) for the specific application. Without the Listing they won't approve the installation even though the NEC doesn't specifically address the issue.
 
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Old 06-01-12, 05:11 AM
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Inspectors, insurance and myself are the same here.
With all the half a** work that has been done in this house by the previous owner, I'm making every effort to do things properly, with no shortcuts. I also don't plan on moving out of here, so I've got (hopefully) 40+ years to live with the work I'm doing now.
 
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Old 06-01-12, 05:24 AM
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Furd, how does your inspectors handle something like a ground screw? There are no listed ground screws that I have heard of. I am sure some means must be in place. Just looking for thoughts, I know it may not help the OP be allowed to use the interlock.
 
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Old 06-01-12, 06:07 PM
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I haven't personally dealt with inspectors for about ten years. Back then they were mostly interested in devices, panels and workmanship. Miscellaneous hardware like grounding screws would be really trivial but they would definitely require nothing but an acorn clamp on a ground rod..

I was involved in a job that had a custom control panel for a cooling tower and the inspector (who was a real stickler) would not approve the installation because the panel did not have a NRTL label. The contractor had to bring in an ETL inspector who made a field inspection and okayed the panel. I don't know what that cost but I'm pretty sure it wasn't cheap.

This same local inspector also did residential inspections in the same jurisdiction. The dental hygienist who scrapes my teeth lives in this jurisdiction and when her husband remodeled their kitchen (he's a commercial builder) they didn't allow for a receptacle on the island. Once I heard that I told her that Brent (the inspector) would fail it, she didn't believe me. She said she had no need for the receptacle and wasn't going to put one in. She failed, both the inspection and talking her way out of installing the receptacle.
 
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Old 06-01-12, 06:40 PM
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The contractor had to bring in an ETL inspector who made a field inspection and okayed the panel. I don't know what that cost but I'm pretty sure it wasn't cheap.
I saw a similar situation in a 12,000 square foot Victoria's Secret store in a high end mall. The owner had their fixture shop in Canada install lights in the display fixtures and the inspector balked when the store fixtures had no U.L. label. That's when I learned that U.L. would send people from Chicago to do field inspections and install labels. That had to be expensive!
 
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Old 06-02-12, 05:48 AM
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We have had this problem all the time with some of the mine sites and process plants I work on /design.
We've had reps from pannel companies fly up with the missing stickers and certification documentation so that the circuit can be energized.
May be a but extreme compared to home but the safety requirements and standards we set at work is starting to bleed into my home life. Given I'm no leaving this house under my own will (my boys will have to move my butt to that old age home...).

Back on topic for a minute... I'm going to search for my panel and see if they make a CSA/ESA cert Interlock. This would be the most cost effective method to obtain the setup I want if it can be found. The transferswitch is more accepted, but would cost more, require more equipment setup and is a whole load more effort to accomplish what I am looking for.
 
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Old 06-08-12, 11:35 PM
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I don't like interlocks and here's why.. You have to turn the main breaker off. Since you can't connect anything before the main, there are no circuits in the house that will be able to come back on when utility power is restored. This means unless you happen to look out the window and notice the neighbor's lights on (which only works at night), you'll have no indication that the power is back on. Meaning you have to periodically check, and then there's the possibility that you'll run on generator far longer than you need to.

Just my opinion, but it's a valid point that not many people think of.
 
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