New AGP pool and heat pump service

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  #1  
Old 05-31-12, 12:40 PM
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New AGP pool and heat pump service

We just recently bought an Above Ground Pool (48'' Depth and metal poles so don't think it counts as a storable) and would like to run 220v and 120v service to the pool about 100-120 ft away from a 100 amp sub service panel in the basement. I have done all of the permits and wiring for our basement but have not worked much with 220v or pool work. Doing it yourself is the best way to learn and save some money so here I am.

I have done a lot of research online and with a NEC book but would like my plan sanity checked and a few questions answered.

Heat Pump 220v- 40 AMP breaker required per manufacture
120V - 20 AMP for pump (1 HP-3' plug/cord) and salt chlorinator

1) From 100 AMP sub panel run 5 #8 THWN conductors (2 Black, Red, White, Green) from regular 40AMP and 20 AMP breakers. Green may possibly be #10 size.

2) Flexbile PVC conduit to box near wall then 1'' rigid PVC out of house along outside wall and underground 18'' to pool area - about 100-120' distance.

3) Black, White, and Green THWN coductors to pole with Outdoor rated box with 120v GFCI recepticle for pump, etc..

4) Black, Red and Green THWN conductors to outdoor rated box with 40 AMP GFCI breaker (assume this counts as service disconnect) then flexible PVC to Heat Pump

5) Junction boxes and plugs will be 5' from pool and grounded with #10 copper wire to copper rod in the ground


Questions:
1) Would it be easier or more economical to run a 60 amp service to the area and split 220v and 120v from a pool area junction box?

2) Was told it would be okay to run 1 ground matched to the highest amperage (40 AMP/220V) for both the 220v and 120v run?

3) According to online wire size calculators both the 220v and 120v should be #8 conductors, this seems overkill for the 120v line. Was told #10 or #12 would be fine?

I appreciate any help, guidance, or criticism.
 
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  #2  
Old 05-31-12, 01:38 PM
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You can only run one service to a remote location so the subpanel is the only code compliant choice. A 60 amp feed to the subpanel will be adequate. The actual subpanel can be 60 amp or larger rated. You will need two #6 hots (black and red or two blacks) , #6 white neutral, and #10 insulated green ground. The subpanel will have an isolated neutral bar and bonded ground bar. In addition to the #10 EGC you will need an eight foot ground rod and wire to the ground bar in the subpanel.
 
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Old 05-31-12, 01:39 PM
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Under Questions
1. Yes Need name plate amps
2. Yes Need name plate amps
3. I don't know. You need to post the actual amperage on the equipment name plate.

Ray I would not call that a service unless the equipment is in an enclosed structure which the op did not state. Its a feeder or 2 ckts. Wire size is unknown until the amperage is listed.
 
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Old 05-31-12, 01:59 PM
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Thx for the replies. As far as the only 1 service to one location that was my understanding that it was okay becuase it was it was basically two circuits. I guess I should not have referred to them as service in the OP.

For the nameplates I have not actually purchased the Heat Pump so I do not have them. I was able to download the manual and all it had that the pump required a 40 amp breaker.

From looking online the pool pump pulls 12.5 amps. We bought the pool and pump used to I had to look it up online.
 
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Old 05-31-12, 02:37 PM
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Okay found some info for the heat pump.

Min Amps / Max Breaker: 36 /40
 
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Old 05-31-12, 02:37 PM
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Two services or two circuits are the same for the sake of this discussion.

Edit:
36/40
Then a 60 amp feed would be best since you need 13 amps for the pump and your going to have voltage drop especially during starting. 100 feet is about border line for up sizing the wire.
 
  #7  
Old 05-31-12, 10:01 PM
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Thanks for the advice ray. Talked to someone at Home Depot and he advised the same and to run a 60 AMP line to the pool area with AL wire and split from there to the 220 and 120. Showed me some AL 2-2-2 wire along with a single AL #2 that would be a lot cheaper than running two sets of THHN/THHW. Any issues with running the AL wire, assuming the box would be greater than 6' from the pool? I don't recall seeing anything in 680 regarding AL wire.
 
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Old 05-31-12, 10:12 PM
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The grounding conductor will need to be insulated.
 
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Old 05-31-12, 10:19 PM
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Thanks pcboss, yes it would be. The 4th additional wire he showd me at HD was insulated. I assume it would all be grounded the same way that Ray mentioned with the 8' Ground Bar at the subpanel (by the pool)?

All 4 of the AL wires were insulated and black, is this an issue?
 
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Old 05-31-12, 10:55 PM
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I assume it would all be grounded the same way that Ray mentioned with the 8' Ground Bar at the subpanel (by the pool)?
You need two ground wires. Both a ground wire from the main panel and a ground wire from the ground rod.
 
  #11  
Old 05-31-12, 11:13 PM
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Okay great, so the sub-panel at the pool location is grounded via the #2 AL conductor from the main and also into the ground/spike as you mentioned earlier.

One other question I have is does the 40 AMP GCI breaker count as a service interrupt for the heat pump, it will be in-sight and probably only 5' from the Heat Pump?
 
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Old 06-01-12, 06:57 PM
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so the sub-panel at the pool location is grounded via the #2 AL conductor from the main and also into the ground/spike as you mentioned earlier.
From the house to the subpanel, you don't really need to use a #2 aluminum ground, I'd recommend a #4 Al ground. From the subpanel to the ground rod you cannot use aluminum, I'd use a #6 bare copper.
 
  #13  
Old 06-07-12, 02:45 PM
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Yes, the 40 amp GFCI breaker counts as your disconnect. (service interrupt)
 
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