How to seal an AC window kit and hose?

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  #1  
Old 07-04-12, 02:16 PM
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How to seal an AC window kit and hose?

Hi,

I bought this AC recently:
Haier Commercial Cool 14000 BTU Portable Air Conditioner (CPN14XC9) : Portable A/C - Future Shop

But when I set everything up, realized the temp was going up. So I inspected it and realized hot air leaks from the parts where the hoses contact the window kit. Here I painted over where the hot air leaks:



But this is how they designed it, so I just want to seal it.

What would be the best and easiest way to seal it so there are no holes, openings in those areas?

I thought maybe I could use caulk? But there are many kinds and I don'r know which one I should be buying. Since this is a dual hose design, I think inside the hoses will be wet, with a lot of moisture. So do I need to get something like this?

GE One-Hour Shower Ready Caulk, 290 mL | Canadian Tire

Also I am in Canada.




Thanks.
 
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  #2  
Old 07-04-12, 02:40 PM
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I would use aluminum duct tape as they use on regular ducts. I see a small screw at the 1030 position. What is it's function? If it holds a plate on the outside, maybe you could seal the outside plate with silicone and reattach it.
 
  #3  
Old 07-04-12, 02:58 PM
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Hi chandler,


Thanks for replying. I am a total noob in DIY. So I should use an aluminum duct tape to cover all these openings?


As for the rectangle part you are asking I assume, it's something that clicks the hose into place. There is one of the other side. Not sure what it's called but it's on the hose itself. So they basically lock the hose in place, but there are still openings around it.


Thanks again.
 
  #4  
Old 07-04-12, 03:32 PM
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If this is a single hose portable that is your real problem not minor leaks. With a two hose outside air is drawn in to carry heat away then exhausted but with a one hose unit hot air is constantly drawn into the room and the cooled room air is exhausted by the single hose.
 
  #5  
Old 07-04-12, 03:51 PM
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Hi ray,

Sorry no mine is dual hose. Actually I found that picture online, but it's exactly the same hose. Mine has 2 hoses though. The temp was going up and then I went near the window kit and felt the parts I painted in the picture and hot air was coming out of these openings. If it didn't, I am confident the room temp would have gone lower.
 
  #6  
Old 07-04-12, 05:08 PM
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I really doubt that you are picking up that much heat from the little bit of air infiltration you are getting from that less-than-perfect seal. What IS causing a problem is that those ducts are not insulated. If that unit is the same as mine the plastic ducts are about five inches in diameter and that will allow a piece of six inch flexible (insulated) duct to slip right over it. There was a noticeable increase in performance when I insulated the ducts.
 
  #7  
Old 07-04-12, 05:34 PM
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Hi Furd,

You might be right. The holes in my window kit also looks to be 5 inches. But how do you insulate the ducts? I haven't done this before, but is there a picture of what you used to insulate them?

Also the hose's end that connects to the window kit was hot as well, not super hot but quite hot. Do all these contribute to the problem? I don't know why an expensive unit like this overlooks this kind of stuff that affects the whole performance.
 
  #8  
Old 07-04-12, 07:00 PM
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What Furd was suggesting was to buy a length of six inch insulated duct and slip it over the ducts you have. You would still use your ducts you have you would just run them through the insulated ducting.
 
  #9  
Old 07-05-12, 08:05 AM
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So is an insulated duct something like this?

 
  #10  
Old 07-05-12, 08:45 AM
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Yes that is an insulated duct. Just slip a section over your ducts.
 
  #11  
Old 07-05-12, 11:09 AM
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Thanks ray, will buy 2 this week then. But am I not supposed to cover the whole duct/hose? I guess only the top parts will be hot, so it's ok to just cover some of it?

Lastly, I still need to plug the holes with an aluminium tape though, right? Because I can imagine this insulated duct will only come up to where the hose attaches the window kit.

Sorry for noob questions
 
  #12  
Old 07-05-12, 11:20 AM
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Thanks ray, will buy 2 this week then.
One may be long enough for both hoses when cut in two.

But am I not supposed to cover the whole duct/hose
You do cover the entire length of hose from AC to window.

Lastly, I still need to plug the holes with an aluminum tape though, right
I doubt they are a problem but you can.
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  #13  
Old 07-05-12, 01:15 PM
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Thanks ray, your explanations are really helpful. Now I got it all.

Btw are these insulated ducts available in different sizes? I will get a 6 inch, but might also bring one of the hoses just to be sure.

Thanks again.
 
  #14  
Old 07-05-12, 02:12 PM
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Yes, they come in various sizes. Usually a given length like 25 feet in a box.

How many rooms are you trying to cool? Is the house insulated?
 
  #15  
Old 07-05-12, 04:59 PM
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Thanks ray. I only want to cool the living room. I think the house is insulated, I mean it's not water tight but when I close the windows, etc, it doesn't seem to have any noise or wind coming through.

Actually I wonder about another thing. When I insulate the duct/hose, will I still be able to extend/contract it? I imagine their ridges (?) will conform to each other and thus allow them to be extended or contracted? I think mine goes from 0.5m to 1.5m when fully extended.


Cheers.
 
  #16  
Old 07-05-12, 05:13 PM
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So long as the insulation is as long as the duct hose I don't see a problem.
 
  #17  
Old 07-05-12, 06:54 PM
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Alrighty then, will report back
 
  #18  
Old 07-08-12, 02:13 PM
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Ok so I did everything except insulating the ducts, because I couldn't find those hoses in Canadian Tire. I will get them too.

But with the aluminium tape, everything is sealed, and there is no hot air leaking out. But even then the temperature still goes up, but this time slower than before.

I don't know if it's this AC or something else, but when I touch the window the AC is connected, it's very hot, of course because of hot air coming out.

Do you guys think I should return this AC? I don't think I am supposed to do this much work for an AC that costs $600.

Really disappointed with this unit.
 
  #19  
Old 07-08-12, 02:47 PM
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Why not just buy a regular window a/c for a couple of hundred bucks? As long as you're returning it. Also, all the doors in the room have to be closed when your a/c is on, not sure if this was obvious or not.
 
  #20  
Old 07-08-12, 03:23 PM
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Hi, I never owned an AC before so thought portables were better. Not sure if window ones can fit into any window. I have to research how they work.

I don't have any doors in my living room but all windows are closed. It's still the same though. I think the cool air it's giving isn't enough to counteract the heat it's generating.
 
  #21  
Old 07-08-12, 03:32 PM
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I don't have any doors in my living room
Then how do you get in the living room? If you mean you have doorways with no doors then that may be your problem. Unless it is a small house 14000 BTUs isn't going to cool a whole house. Are you sure it is even 14000 BTU?
 
  #22  
Old 07-08-12, 04:38 PM
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Window A/C is much easier to operate than portable. Once the hot season starts, you insert it in your window, seal it with flaps that are attached to the unit and leave it there until it's cool. The hot air vent and the water drain outside, so no hoses are needed. They come in different sizes so take out your measuring tape and get the window clearance first. They also come in wide(cheaper) or casement (more expensive).

If you don't have doors in your living room, but have doorways, I would suggest nice heavy drapes over the entrances.

In any case, window a/c are always more efficient and cheaper. Portable are used unless there is not other option, like no windows in the room, or there is enough clearance for a cat to go through. Last resort.
 
  #23  
Old 07-08-12, 05:22 PM
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Haha, yes I meant just a single doorway


Yes it is supposed to be 14000 BTU. It's this one:
Haier Commercial Cool 14000 BTU Portable Air Conditioner (CPN14XC9) : Portable A/C - Future Shop


I just looked at one of the window models and it says it's width is 50cm, my window looks like 40cm something, I have to measure but the windows in the living room and bedroom look pretty small. Only the kitchen window is different but that's casement.


In any case, this is Montreal so I think houses are not very new here. I just moved here, and the windows for instance are old school. Looks something like this:




But instead of like that, there is a big large window between them that can't be opened.
 
  #24  
Old 07-08-12, 05:54 PM
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Being from south of your boarder CM don't mean much but those windows look large enough for a window AC.
 
  #25  
Old 07-08-12, 07:03 PM
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How about a picture of the actual window where A/C could be potentially be installed? How big is your room? Maybe a smaller size window a/c would work more efficient than this 14000 thing.

I have been using 5000 btu ac's all my life and they are pretty slim.
 
  #26  
Old 07-08-12, 07:40 PM
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Thanks guys, I will take a pic tomorrow.


I was looking at this AC:
Danby 10000 BTU Horizontal Air Conditioner (DAC10011E) : Horizontal A/C - Future Shop

Room size I think about 70 m^2.

Btw Ray what do you mean by CM?
 
  #27  
Old 07-08-12, 09:12 PM
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Btw Ray what do you mean by CM?
Centimeters. M[SUP]2[/SUP] are also difficult for us non-metric folk to visualize.
 
  #28  
Old 07-09-12, 10:18 AM
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Sorry guys, didn't think of that. I only know my height in feet/inches. Everything else I have a hard time visualizing feet and inches (: Will update your guys today.

Btw since the windows in my apartment are dual, like one on the inside, one on the outside, am I supposed to hook the window kit to the window that faces outside? Because I hooked mine to the window that faces inside. The one that faces outside has a net and not sure if it opens like a regular window, but will try to hook the window kit there because I feel after a few mins, the area between 2 windows get filled with hit air, making the windows hot but also causing the cold air intake hose to pull hot air instead of normal temperature air.

Because I remember the AC cooling a couple degrees and then going back up.
 
  #29  
Old 07-09-12, 10:32 AM
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Btw since the windows in my apartment are dual, like one on the inside, one on the outside, am I supposed to hook the window kit to the window that faces outside?... the area between 2 windows get filled with hit air, making the windows hot but also causing the cold air intake hose to pull hot air instead of normal temperature air.
Wait, are you saying you did not remove the storm window when you installed the portable AC! The AC must vent outside not between the windows.
 
  #30  
Old 07-09-12, 10:44 AM
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Unhappy

Nope I didn't see this mentioned anywhere, neither the manual or the installation videos I have seen online. I just thought as long as the air goes out, I should be fine.

Now installing it to the storm window. Didn't know this is what it's called
 
  #31  
Old 07-09-12, 11:48 AM
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I just thought as long as the air goes out, I should be fine.
Okay maybe I am confused. How could the air go out if the storm window was closed? Were both windows open? Am I misunderstanding?
 
  #32  
Old 07-09-12, 11:55 AM
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No actually you are right. What happened is this

So I have seen that the window had a net behind the actual window. So I thought just exhausting hot air here should be fine to exhaust it.

But today I was thinking how would the AC get air and send air if the hose outlets are near each other, and was thinking maybe this was why the area was quickly filling with hot air.

When I inspected the net though, I realized there is another but thin glass behind it. I opened both of them now.

I will try this setup but should I be lowering the net all the way down? Because it's really flaky, the net doesn't go down by itself. When you move it down, so does the glass behind it. Otherwise would flies, insects not come inside the hose and damage the AC?
 
  #33  
Old 07-09-12, 12:20 PM
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The screen shouldn't stop airflow unless it clogs with dirt drawn in by the intake which probably won't happen. The window be it inner or outer should seal adequately against the top of the plate that holds the hoses that should keep bugs out of the house. I wouldn't worry about bugs in the machine. I'd just open the outer window but leave the hoses in the inner window.

There would be no sense having a screen if the storm window couldn't be open while the screen is closed but that is an issue for another day.
 
  #34  
Old 07-09-12, 02:28 PM
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Thanks ray, I will investigate that later then. I tried it and it seemed to work much better. It was saying inside was 26 C and dropped it to 22, but not below even after an hour, although outside temp shows 23 C online.

But there is another issue that actually prevents me to use the unit when I want.

Yesterday when I tried to use it while working on my computer, after half an hour, everything shut down. I found out that the breakers (?) was burnt or busted. I had to replace them. I haven't seen this style, because they look like small lighbulbs, although they don't light up.

So my question is, how can I use both devices without causing the same thing to happen again. It's not like I will have the AC on all the time but if I want to run it for an hour, I am afraid to use my computer at the same time.
 
  #35  
Old 07-09-12, 03:28 PM
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You have a very large unit for your purposes. It draws 10 amps and up to 30 amps or more for a few seconds when starting. It should be used only on a dedicated line with no other loads.

I found out that the breakers (?) was burnt or busted. I had to replace them. I haven't seen this style, because they look like small lighbulbs, although they don't light up.
Not breakers fuses. Be sure to replace only with time delay (slow-blow) fuses. If you use fast-blow fuses they may blow almost every time the AC starts. Were they 15 amp fuses? Did you replace with 15 amp fuses? If they were 15 amp it is very important not to use larger fuses or you could start a fire.

You need to ask your landlord to install a dedicated line for the AC. Perhaps if you offer to pay for part of the cost he will be willing.
 
  #36  
Old 07-09-12, 04:02 PM
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Not sure how it is in Canada, but here landlords usually don't look forward to expensive electrical installations. Only once in my life my landlord was that accommodating, replacing an old casement so we could install an a/c.

Try using other outlets for either a/c or computer, maybe there are some with less loads on them.
 
  #37  
Old 07-09-12, 04:20 PM
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I think Canada is one thing but Montreal seems to be another, because I lived different parts of Canada and here seems different in a lot of things. For instance someone told me they replaced the kitchen floor but paid himself because if they ask the landlord then he would up the rent immediately. Not sure how it works but that's what he said.


How do you know if they are slow blow or fast blow? Basically what happened is, I found a few of these in a cupboard when I first moved in, didn't know what they were but when I found out about the source of the problem, I used these to replace. But the ones that were burnt was 15 amps, but in the replacements, I could only find one 15, the others were 20 amps. Would this be dangerous?


Although I used the 20 amps for the kitchen or something because I swapped the old working ones with the burnt ones first to see if that was the problem. So 20 amps isn't used for my living room.


Some outlets do not work though. So there is only another one that's far from this corner. So one outlet, I have everything from my computer to receiver, subwoofer (not very big), and the other outlet, I plugged the AC.


So basically there are 4 breakers for the apartment. Installing another one is a huge operation? But from what I heard here, most landlords don't care to upgrade but to rent it over and over
 
  #38  
Old 07-09-12, 05:24 PM
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But the ones that were burnt was 15 amps, but in the replacements, I could only find one 15, the others were 20 amps. Would this be dangerous?
Yes, if you replaced the 15 with a 20 amp it could start afire. You need to replace it immediately.

So basically there are 4 breakers for the apartment.
No, you don't have any breakers. You have four fuses. Fuse boxes haven't been used for many years. It is doubtful a new circuit could be added and you or looking at a couple of thousand minimum to replace what is there. Can you post a couple of pictures of the fuse box? http://www.doityourself.com/forum/li...-pictures.html

Assuming standard Edison base the fuse should be marked TL.
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Normally an AC as large as you have might actually be 240v because it is aproaching the maximum amps for a residential 120 volt circuit. If you are trying to cool only one room 4mX5m or less or less a 8500 BTU AC should be large enough and would use about 7.5 amps.
 
  #39  
Old 07-09-12, 06:21 PM
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Thanks Ray, I could take a pic with my ipod but found this pic online that's exactly what I have, except I have four fuses:



Thanks for clarifying it, I didn't know they were called fuse boxes. I don't know these terms in English.

It sucks that this is what I have though. Because if they were breakers then all they would do is switch off and then you would just have to switch them back on, right?

The apartment above me (2 floor apartment) has something like this:
http://www.bayareaelectrician.org/wp...t-breaker1.jpg

So not sure why they are even different.

Also this fuse box blow didn't happen as soon as I turned on the AC but half an hour after it was running along with my computer, etc.

But before here, I have never seen a fuse box myself
 
  #40  
Old 07-09-12, 06:55 PM
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You have too many things that are powerful working under a single fuse, which is also 15 amp. Try using another outlet, in that far away corner. Is there a window on that side? You might also want to get a 30 amp extension cord.

Might as well take pictures of your entire apartment.

Also, you mentioned that many of the outlets do not work. Perhaps other fuses are blown also in that fuse box. Inspect each one.
 
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