NJ code for spa and shed.

Reply

  #81  
Old 07-21-12, 09:46 PM
Member
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Wet side of Washington state.
Posts: 18,399
This is a surface-mount PVC electrical box. Notice the mounting "ears" on the outside and the slightly rounded corners. Notice also that the only entry into the box (other than the front, of course, is via slip fit hubs.

[ATTACH=CONFIG]2061[/ATTACH]
(Image courtesy of Menards.com)
They come in all sizes and configurations.

This one is a die-cast (pot metal) box and it has threaded hubs. Commonly called a "Bell" box after the original manufacturer. They also come in all sizes and configurations. The die-cast material is more weather resistant (won't rust) but generally not as strong as steel and can be used in place of PVC

[ATTACH=CONFIG]2062[/ATTACH]
(Image courtesy of Needco.com)

This is a typical "old work" box. Note the "ears" that swing out to hold the face frame of the box against drywall. These are not suitable for anything but placement in existing walls.

[ATTACH=CONFIG]2063[/ATTACH]
(Image courtesy of Quinby hardware.)

The last is a typical "new work" box for type NM cable. It is unsuitable for your installation. Notice how "open" it is.

[ATTACH=CONFIG]2064[/ATTACH]
(Image courtesy of Amazon.com)


Is there really any difference in running NM vs UF???
Oh, YES! UF is ungodly stiff compared to the same in NM. It is because with UF the outer jacket is literally molded around the inner conductors and there is NO movement of the inner conductors inside the jacket as there is with NM. Stripping UF is downright dangerous in my opinion because the plastic is so thick and stiff. It is VERY easy to have your knife slip and then everything gets covered in blood. With NM you can make a little cut and almost peel the jacket off. UF requires you to cut every single millimeter of that nasty jacket. Also very easy to nick the inner insulation when trying to remove the outer jacket.

I could have all the conduit and boxes installed and the wire pulled in that hen house before you got even the first bit of UF installed.
 
Attached Images     
Sponsored Links
  #82  
Old 07-23-12, 01:34 PM
lawrosa's Avatar
Super Moderator
Thread Starter
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: USA
Posts: 17,607
OK so UF cable is a lot of money. They do not sell short 10 ft lengths at mega mart. 50 ft was the shortest at some $50 +

I did run NM until I can find UF in shorter lengths. Running conduit may be an option but does not allow me to put the boxed where I want without doing some crazy turns.

Well here is what I got so far.


2x 20 amp breakers in the spa panel ( 50 amp GFI in main panel) I removed the GFI in the shed and installed a regular outlet since I am GFI protected at the main breaker.

Name:  P07-23-12_14.13.jpg
Views: 2872
Size:  34.3 KB

No splice in here. I ran right into the coop with individual conductors. Will silicone around later today. Piece of pipe and a male adapter attaches to inside box.

Name:  P07-23-12_14.14.jpg
Views: 882
Size:  27.2 KB

Inside box. I could not find a plastic box with a back knockout that was off center. Since I already came into the coop and had my holes drilled. I used this metal box. Tied grounds together and pigtailed to ground screw.

Name:  P07-23-12_14.15.jpg
Views: 1108
Size:  20.5 KB

Used these surface mount boxes. They had knockouts for strain relief clamps. So I believe all I need to do is change to UF when I get the $$$

Name:  P07-23-12_14.15[3].jpg
Views: 1103
Size:  31.9 KBName:  P07-23-12_14.15[1].jpg
Views: 867
Size:  29.8 KBName:  P07-23-12_14.15[2].jpg
Views: 873
Size:  33.0 KB


Also I was thinking of installing a GFI outlet next to the spa panel and power it from that 120v line, but I guess I can just snip those and tap off one side of the tappings for either side shed or coop..



OK zing it to me.....What did I do wrong and what do I need to fix.. I can take it....
 
  #83  
Old 07-23-12, 01:41 PM
Member
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Wet side of Washington state.
Posts: 18,399
Don't use silicone caulk, paint won't stick to silicone. Fill the opening with water putty (Fixall) or silconized acrylic latex caulk.
 
  #84  
Old 07-23-12, 02:32 PM
Nashkat1's Avatar
Member
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: USA
Posts: 8,470
Running conduit may be an option but does not allow me to put the boxed where I want without doing some crazy turns.
That's when you swipe... er, borrow, the Admiral's hair dryer.

Actually, Mike, everything looks pretty good, given that you went ahead with cable - and you already know about replacing the "Romex®."

The one thing I would fix is the orientation of the receptacle the fan is plugged into. Receptacles for straight-blade plugs need to be mounted with the face vertical, because they have no ability to grip the prongs. Vertical or horizontal makes no difference, but any receptacle mounted face-down needs to be a twist-lock receptacle. And what's up with that red multi-tap stuck in there?
 
  #85  
Old 07-23-12, 02:45 PM
lawrosa's Avatar
Super Moderator
Thread Starter
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: USA
Posts: 17,607
. Receptacles for straight-blade plugs need to be mounted with the face vertical, because they have no ability to grip the prongs. Vertical or horizontal makes no difference, but any receptacle mounted face-down needs to be a twist-lock receptacle. And what's up with that red multi-tap stuck in there?

OK I will turn that tomorrow. The read multi tap is a 70f off 78f on thermocube for the fan.


I think that first box should have been the disconnect too. Ummm.... I was not thinking. I may move that tomorrow also.



 
  #86  
Old 07-23-12, 03:08 PM
Nashkat1's Avatar
Member
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: USA
Posts: 8,470
I think that first box should have been the disconnect too. Ummm.... I was not thinking. I may move that tomorrow also.
Yeah, probably a better idea. Just be sure to use a metal handy-box switch cover and to snap the ears off the switch. Better to have that than the one that looks like it's brittle plastic. All of the covers in the shed and coop need to be metal or nylon, IMO.
 
  #87  
Old 07-23-12, 04:01 PM
lawrosa's Avatar
Super Moderator
Thread Starter
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: USA
Posts: 17,607
All of the covers in the shed and coop need to be metal or nylon, IMO.
Whats Nylon? I know what metal is of course. I read should be a type of sealed plate?


 
  #88  
Old 07-23-12, 04:24 PM
pcboss's Avatar
Forum Topic Moderator
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: Maryland
Posts: 14,587
Nylon is just a nicer plate material than the harder phenolic plastic. Nylon can bend in half while the other would snap.
 
  #89  
Old 07-23-12, 04:51 PM
lawrosa's Avatar
Super Moderator
Thread Starter
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: USA
Posts: 17,607
Are metal boxes allowed in a coop?
 
  #90  
Old 07-23-12, 04:56 PM
chandler's Avatar
Banned. Rule And/Or Policy Violation
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: USA
Posts: 39,968
Only 40 more posts on this thread and you will have surpassed the Chicken coop thread I don't like metal anything in a chicken house, mainly due to the ammonia put off by the chickens. Tends to rust things prematurely.
 
  #91  
Old 07-23-12, 04:57 PM
lawrosa's Avatar
Super Moderator
Thread Starter
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: USA
Posts: 17,607
OK Thanks.

Going to mega mart.
 
  #92  
Old 07-23-12, 06:25 PM
CasualJoe's Avatar
Member
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: USA
Posts: 9,385
The plastic boxes look to me like they are intended for a flush installation although you are using them in open cavities. The plastic plates would not pass an inspection in my area, they aren't U.L. Listed to be installed without the device box being flush in a finished wall. The plastic plates are designed to provide a finished device by contacting the wall surface surrounding the box. True surface boxes have true surface covers and plates such as handy box covers and plates and 1900 box blank covers and raised device covers. I am not saying plastic plates are never used like this, but I am saying using them this way is not 100% Kosher.
 
  #93  
Old 07-23-12, 08:11 PM
lawrosa's Avatar
Super Moderator
Thread Starter
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: USA
Posts: 17,607
The only type conduit boxes at the mega mart are metal. Except those big grey ones that are too big for me to mount anywhere.

I would use those metal ones but it seems everyone says no metal.
 
  #94  
Old 07-23-12, 09:12 PM
Member
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Wet side of Washington state.
Posts: 18,399
No single-gang grey PVC boxes with hubs? You CAN cut off the external mounting ears and just run a screw through the back. There should also be the nylon (unbreakable) surface mount covers for both switches and duplex receptacles readily available for these boxes.
 
  #95  
Old 07-23-12, 09:18 PM
Nashkat1's Avatar
Member
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: USA
Posts: 8,470
I would use those metal ones but it seems everyone says no metal.
Not everyone. Notice I suggested metal covers.

And I'm going to back up Casual Joe here - those blue boxes are made to be mounted inside a closed wall. I know I said everything looks pretty good, and it does - especially for a job done with inappropriate materials. The workmanship is good.

But before I said that, I said "this is a pipe job" and "surface-rated boxes." It's still "a pipe job" and you still need "surface-rated boxes."
 
  #96  
Old 07-23-12, 10:37 PM
lawrosa's Avatar
Super Moderator
Thread Starter
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: USA
Posts: 17,607
Here is the box I would like to use. I could not find them but will go to the other mega mart tomorrow and see if they have them.

Male adapters and conduit.......

Shop CARLON 1-Gang Plastic Handy Electrical Box at Lowes.com
 
  #97  
Old 07-23-12, 10:54 PM
Nashkat1's Avatar
Member
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: USA
Posts: 8,470
That'll work. One reason I like metal boxes, like your handy box, is that I can hit 'em from every side, including the ends. But I understand what others have said about corrosion.
 
  #98  
Old 07-23-12, 11:03 PM
lawrosa's Avatar
Super Moderator
Thread Starter
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: USA
Posts: 17,607
that I can hit 'em from every side,
This box lets me do that. Its just like the metal box.


But the cover plates that are for wet locations are for the other type boxes. Like this.

Shop CARLON 1-Gang Type FSC Box at Lowes.com


Can I run conduit through the studs or has to be surface mount?




 
  #99  
Old 07-24-12, 09:32 AM
Nashkat1's Avatar
Member
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: USA
Posts: 8,470
This box lets me do that. Its just like the metal box.
It is? The metal box you used has a KO in each end, where you can mount a pipe connector or a cable clamp. You used one.

I looked at the plastic handy box again. I see what may be poke-in inlets for cable in the ends, but I don't see a KO. So that means no pipe connector (male adapter, in PVC lingo). Just an option I like to have,

But the cover plates that are for wet locations are for the other type boxes. Like this.

Shop CARLON 1-Gang Type FSC Box at Lowes.com
This: REDDOT 6" Rectangle Plastic Electrical Box Cover is a wet location cover. I'm not sure why it wouldn't mount on either box. Where are you thinking of using this? Is it for the new outside receptacle? If so, that should be in an FS box or a metal WP box anyway.

Can I run conduit through the studs or has to be surface mount?
Absolutely! It's harder to do, but I expect you know that already and are used to doing it with pipe.
 
  #100  
Old 07-24-12, 06:36 PM
CasualJoe's Avatar
Member
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: USA
Posts: 9,385
Can I run conduit through the studs or has to be surface mount?
You can run PVC ENT through studs and it fits and glues into the sockets of the same fitting as schedule 40 PVC conduit. The big box stores probably sell this by the foot. If they don't, electrical supply houses generally do.

Frost - Carlon ENT Non-Metallic Tubing
 
  #101  
Old 07-24-12, 07:57 PM
lawrosa's Avatar
Super Moderator
Thread Starter
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: USA
Posts: 17,607
So I have been losing sleep from my first electrical attempt at this coop. I just knew it was wrong when I did it. The perfectionist that I am I wanted everything right, so I ripped it all out today...LOL

I could say again I never would want to be an electrician and would rather cut and thread pipe all day, or stick pins in my eyeballs then run wire.

With that said I am done. I hope there is nothing wrong here in these fabulous pics I posted. The only thing that help me here is I laid some pipe in my day....LOL.


If you see anything wrong here please let me know.


Switch box first box on the circuit. Nut inside and outside the box on male adapter from incoming conduit. Box on right is first receptacle. I put a piece of 2x3 for a backer on this outlet to keep the conduit level and in-line.
Name:  P07-24-12_18.38[1].jpg
Views: 929
Size:  24.1 KB

Here is the first receptacle. See the piece of wood I used to bring it out and mount it. Makes it all nice and plumb. Ran to second receptacle along the ridge line.

Name:  P07-24-12_18.38.jpg
Views: 762
Size:  28.5 KB

Here is the second receptacle. Mounted in new position that is vertical and not face down as it was before. Did a type of swing joint ell and 45 to get in line with the ridge.

Name:  P07-24-12_18.37.jpg
Views: 972
Size:  30.7 KB

Here is a kind of overall view. I need to add a couple conduit clamps I think.

Name:  P07-24-12_18.38[2].jpg
Views: 740
Size:  28.3 KB

Finished.

Found the matching cover plates. Tested with my plug in tester and good to go.

Red duplex is a thermocube for the fan. 70F off 78F on. Also have a thermocube for the waterer/heater for the winter, 35F on 45F off that will go in the outlet below that one.

Timer is going to be used to plug in a light socket adapter for a 2 watt candelabra CFL. ( For extended light for winter eggs)

Name:  P07-24-12_19.21[2].jpg
Views: 891
Size:  24.9 KB

Name:  P07-24-12_19.21[3].jpg
Views: 734
Size:  22.3 KB

Name:  P07-24-12_19.21.jpg
Views: 763
Size:  28.1 KB

Name:  P07-24-12_19.21[1].jpg
Views: 733
Size:  24.3 KB


I am done........ Its Miller time
 
  #102  
Old 07-24-12, 09:53 PM
Member
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Wet side of Washington state.
Posts: 18,399
Very nice!
 
  #103  
Old 07-24-12, 10:45 PM
Nashkat1's Avatar
Member
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: USA
Posts: 8,470
Nice work!

Beer:thirty!

The only thing that help me here is I laid some pipe in my day...
I knew an old pipe-runner could do this!!

Nut inside and outside the box on male adapter from incoming conduit.
Really? Why the nut on the outside on a male adapter?
 
  #104  
Old 07-24-12, 10:56 PM
lawrosa's Avatar
Super Moderator
Thread Starter
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: USA
Posts: 17,607
Really? Why the nut on the outside on a male adapter?
To keep a gap off the side stud so the cover plate fit.

 
  #105  
Old 07-25-12, 11:34 AM
Nashkat1's Avatar
Member
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: USA
Posts: 8,470
To keep a gap off the side stud so the cover plate fit.
Got it. So long as the box is secure, that sounds like an innovative "fix."

Again, nice work, Mike.
 
  #106  
Old 07-25-12, 06:48 PM
CasualJoe's Avatar
Member
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: USA
Posts: 9,385
Mike, it's easy to see this was installed by a craftsman. It looks much better than the first pass. The only thing I would have mentioned, you already caught and that was about adding a few straps.
 
Reply

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Thread Tools
Search this Thread
Display Modes