Which breaker slots are limited to 70a max?


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Old 07-16-12, 06:44 AM
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Which breaker slots are limited to 70a max?

I am a little mystified by the wording on this load center and as I read it the directions are opposite of what current panels of similar design allow. Anyway, I want to know what slots are limited to 70a. Basically are 1 and 2 limited to 70a max or 10,11 and 12 limited to 70a max. It is a 200 amp panel and don't even draw 100 amps since most of my appliances are gas. I might be able to draw 100 amps if I turn my dryer, microwave, oven, and AC on full blast along with every other plug in appliance in the house on.

I want to put in a 100a breaker to run to a sub panel in my garage to run 2 30a 220 circuits and 2 50a 220 circuits. Obviously I won't use everything at the same time, but I would like to not have to plug in and un plug 220v items, I just want enough outlets available, and I probably could run everything at once and still not draw 100a!


 
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Old 07-16-12, 08:04 AM
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Welcome to the forums!

This appears to be a split-bus panel, with the 240V circuits restricted to five designated 2-pole spaces: 1, 2, 10, 11 & 12. Space "whatever," opposite space 12, should have a 2-pole breaker mounted in it that is the main breaker for all of the 120V breakers below it: 3-9 and 13-19.

If that's correct, turning the breaker opposite #12 OFF should kill all of the 120V outlets in the house. This may also be evident from looking closely at the feed busses inside the panel. It also means that breaker, if sized at 70A, is limiting the total load on all of the 120V circuits to 70A.

The 100A breaker you want to install to feed the subpanel in your garage needs to be mounted in the 240V area; in position 1, 2, 10, 11 or 12.
 

Last edited by ray2047; 07-16-12 at 08:41 AM. Reason: Correct typo. (V>A)
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Old 07-16-12, 09:33 AM
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I was just concerned with the wording "Branch circuits opposite the Neutral bus are limited to 70a max"

I think at some point someone changed that Main slot to a 220 slot, I suspect whomever installed the hot tub that we removed the first week we moved into the house.
 
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Old 07-16-12, 09:55 AM
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"Branch circuits opposite the Neutral bus are limited to 70a max"
I don't see that.

I think at some point someone changed that Main slot to a 220 slot
It has always been a 2-pole 240V space. If this is a split-bus panel, the load on that breaker is the buses for single-pole breakers below it. That can be determined by seeing if turning it off kills that section, and by looking carefully at the way the buses for ungrounded power are constructed.

As I said,
This appears to be a split-bus panel
 
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Old 07-16-12, 09:56 AM
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Last edited by ray2047; Today at 11:41 AM. Reason: Correct typo. (V>A)
Oops! Thanks for correcting my "mento," Ray!
 
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Old 07-16-12, 01:38 PM
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I don't see that.
It is in the text on the panel, top right hand side.
 
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Old 07-16-12, 02:53 PM
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It is in the text on the panel, top right hand side.
It is inferred by the the circled words in the image below. This is an outdated panel and really needs to be replaced when you can.

The presence of a lighting main is characteristic of a split bus.
 
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Old 07-16-12, 02:59 PM
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We plan to replace the panel when we build out a real garage/shop, right now we just have a car port with small shop attached.

The future plan is for a feed through panel with a second panel in the garage with a transfer switch with a generator. I just need some 220 outlets in the small shop for now.
 
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Old 07-16-12, 09:59 PM
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I was just concerned with the wording "Branch circuits opposite the Neutral bus are limited to 70a max"
Okay, I squinted at the screen and finally saw it. And as Ray said, it is inferred by the stamped note on the panel schedule (except for the part about "opposite the neutral bus").

But what's your concern? As I said earlier, that just means that the "lighting" main
is limiting the total load on all of the 120V circuits to 70A.
It doesn't have anything to do with your desire to install a 2-pole 100A breaker unless, of course, you were planning to install it in the "lighting" area.
The 100A breaker you want to install to feed the subpanel in your garage needs to be mounted in the 240V area; in position 1, 2, 10, 11 or 12.
 
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Old 08-11-12, 02:59 AM
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Any idea on what cost should be to replace this panel with a new panel with Main disconnect.

Someone in the past replaced the spot marked "LTG MAIN 70A MAX" with a 220v line to run a hot tub.... I had the hot tub removed when we moved in, however that slot doesn't turn the lights off now. I just want to know what a fair price to replace the panel would be?

I am going to pull wire to my shop and and put everything in place for a sub panel, but I don't want to even think about attacking the main panel.
 
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Old 08-11-12, 05:22 AM
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If the split bus is your main panel I would venture a guess that it must be at least 30 years old and maybe much older. The age alone tells me you need more than just a panel replacement and probably a complete service replacement; panel, meter socket, updated grounding and all service entrance wiring.
 
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Old 08-11-12, 07:45 AM
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The house was built in 1978-79. Meter box looks to be updated at some point, but it has lockout tag on it from the Power Company. I am pretty sure from the look of the box there is a main to turn everything off.
 
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Old 08-11-12, 08:32 AM
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I am pretty sure from the look of the box there is a main to turn everything off
Can you explain more fully? If there is really a main shutoff somewhere else then it is a sub panel and you could replace it yourself if you didn't increase the amperage. If the meter socket feeds straight to the panel there is no shutoff between. Or are you saying you think there is a shutoff in the meter socket? That would be unusual in areas I'm familiar with.
 
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Old 08-11-12, 09:21 AM
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I have seen this style meter box at home improvement stores, and they have a throw switch under the round meter to disconnect inside the box. The enclosure around the meter is bigger than a normal little square box, it is housed in a large rectangle box, I think there is a main switch in there, but I couldn't be sure without cutting the POCO tag.

There is no way to shut off power to the panel at the panel, it is a split bus, but someone took the split out of it... You have to throw every breaker to turn off all power.
 
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Old 08-11-12, 10:16 AM
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There is no disconnect under the POCO tag. If it had a main disconnect it would be under a separate cover that you can open without cutting the POCO tag/opening the meter enclosure.

(Unless of course the POCO tagged the disconnect cover as well, which they are not allowed to do. If there is a black cover like this and it has a POCO tag on it, you can legally cut it off.)



What you saw "under the round meter" is a bypass, which is so that the utility can replace the meter without causing an outage.

If you're still not sure, post a pic of your meter so we can see what you have.
 
 

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