Any code issue on this chicken water heater?

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  #1  
Old 08-07-12, 04:29 PM
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Any code issue on this chicken water heater?

I made this chicken water heater. Its a common device that's made often and I actually saw a open type that I thought was UL listed. But cant find that data.

Here is the open type. Bulb is exposed and you place the waterer on top.


strombergschickens.com



Here is the one I made. Its a candelabra cord. I need to get a candle style 25watt bulb. I was only using that 60 watt one to try it out. Gets too hot that's why I suggested a 25 watt bulb

I screwed the lid to the bottom of my waterer. It will be plugged into a 36F on thermocube.

The cord it rated for 75watt max bulb.

So does anyone see anything wrong? I can only think of grounding issue of the cookie tin?

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  #2  
Old 08-07-12, 06:35 PM
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The metal really should be bonded to ground, especially the close proximity to water and livestock. Hopefully the receptacle is GFCI as well.

As far as code issues, I'd say this homemade device probably violates a nice chunk of them.
 
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Old 08-07-12, 06:35 PM
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You may only need a 7 1/2 watt bulb. You will be creating a lot of heat in that little box. I use one that has a built in heater. red bottom and opaque top. Has built in thermostat. Got it at a feed store. Works great and don't have to worry about a bulb burning out.
 
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Old 08-07-12, 06:53 PM
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You may only need a 7 1/2 watt bulb. You will be creating a lot of heat in that little box. I use one that has a built in heater. red bottom and opaque top. Has built in thermostat. Got it at a feed store. Works great and don't have to worry about a bulb burning out.
Yeah the reason why I did not get a farm store one is because they are high wattage. 150 watts are so and my electric rates are already outrageous.

Those farm units only have a heating pad inside them. The metal looking ones have that. If I could have found a low watt pad I possibly would use that. I could not find one.

Also the reason for this waterer is that the coop is small insde. A regular 1 gallon waterer takes 1 foot of floor space.

The metal really should be bonded to ground, especially the close proximity to water and livestock. Hopefully the receptacle is GFCI as well.

As far as code issues, I'd say this homemade device probably violates a nice chunk of them.


How would I go about bonding it? Yes it is GFI protected.

And yes it is a homemade device but what is the difference if I put that cord in a lamp base and made a lamp? That is essentially what I did right? Lamp bases are not bonded since there are no ground prongs on any lamps I have....




 
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Old 08-07-12, 08:08 PM
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Hopefully the receptacle is GFCI as well.
All of the power in lawrosa's coop is GFCI protected.
 
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Old 08-07-12, 08:18 PM
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How would I go about bonding it?
Run a piece of #14 bare copper from the pan under the waterer to the box where the thermocube is plugged in. At the pan, sneak it inside and curl it around a 10-32 ground screw tightened into a drilled and tapped hole. At the box, sneak it inside and splice it to the GEC that's already there. Fasten it to the framing with a few staples between the box and the waterer.

Lamp bases are not bonded since there are no ground prongs on any lamps I have.
Yes, but a table lamp sitting inside your house is not the same as a cord with a lamp on the end of it out in the chicken coop. And how many ceiling fixtures do you have that don't have a ground wire?
 
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Old 08-07-12, 08:32 PM
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Just asking. What about submersible heaters for aquariums?
 
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Old 08-07-12, 08:38 PM
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And how many ceiling fixtures do you have that don't have a ground wire?
Huh???? What do you mean?

Just asking. What about submersible heaters for aquariums?
The chicken waterers are based on water cooler technology. There is no way to get it inside.





 
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Old 08-07-12, 08:59 PM
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Originally Posted by Nashkat1
And how many ceiling fixtures do you have that don't have a ground wire?
Huh???? What do you mean?
What part didn't you understand? Don't the ceiling light fixtures, ceiling fans, etc. in your house have ground wires that get bonded to the EGC in the supply? Mine do, and so do nearly all I've ever installed.
 
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Old 08-07-12, 09:29 PM
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What part didn't you understand?
Honestly I thought it was a trick question, but now I know what you mean. That little braided wire on ceiling fixtures that you tie to the EGC. Gotcha.

( I think I only installed/replaced three ceiling fixtures in my entire life time)
 
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Old 08-08-12, 09:49 PM
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Honestly I thought it was a trick question, but now I know what you mean. That little braided wire on ceiling fixtures that you tie to the EGC. Gotcha.
Yep, that one. Or that little green wire.

( I think I only installed/replaced three ceiling fixtures in my entire life time)
I hear you. I may have installed 100' of plumbing pipe in my lifetime - all for gas. I've often installed 10 or 20 times that much electrical pipe in a single day.

That's why I ask you about all the plumbing stuff!

So, did you get what I was saying about how to install the ground?
 
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Old 08-08-12, 10:46 PM
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so, did you get what I was saying about how to install the ground?
Yes but not sure how to sneak it into the nice electrical job I did in the coop.I could attach the one side to the metal bracket no problem.


I was thinking this reptile mat 4 watt may be better but it has a bunch of warnings about electrical shock.


 
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Old 08-09-12, 04:07 AM
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Don't know if I would consider the mat, since chickens peck at everything in sight. Premature roasted chicken, if you know what I mean. Your set up may not be UL approved, but it is functional from what I see.
 
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Old 08-09-12, 07:37 AM
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I am not going to stress on this too much, but.....


Larry I found a better pic of a production model sold at various farm supply stores. This pic shows the cord/plug and there is no ground prong. So I would assume not bonded.

How would this unit get UL listed? If it is at all. I thought I saw that it was in a link I read. ( I will poke around)



cutlersupply.com


Additionally these type with the pads under them have the ground prong so I would say they are bonded. And I would assume the plastic base waterers do not need bonding and have no ground prong? ( larry you said you have the plastic variety?)


theisens.com




Just wondering.
 
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Old 08-09-12, 12:34 PM
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Old 08-10-12, 10:05 PM
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How would this unit get UL listed? If it is at all.
I understand that you may have found a couple of heaters that are metal and don't have a means of connecting to ground. That's interesting, but it's kinda beside the point I was making.

If it were mine, I would not combine water, electricity, metal containers and a coop full of pecking chickens without providing a connection to ground for the metal container the electricity is run into. For the same reason that I wouldn't plumb a bathtub or lav without a functioning overflow.

Just because you have found some manufactured products that appear to not do that doesn't mean that that's a good idea, IMO.
 
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Old 08-10-12, 10:16 PM
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Just because you have found some manufactured products that appear to not do that doesn't mean that that's a good idea, IMO.


Hmmm...but what does code say?

And if code says bond then it would seem anyone can make a device and sell it unboded.

I say that because it seems many devices like lamps and chicken waterers are sold all the time without being bonded from what I see on the internet.

If its code then where are the electrical police?

 
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Old 08-10-12, 10:50 PM
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Hmmm...but what does code say?
IDK. I never bother reading the code requirements for manufacturers, since I'm not a manufacturer.
 
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Old 08-11-12, 06:14 AM
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I say that because it seems many devices like lamps and chicken waterers are sold all the time without being bonded from what I see on the internet.

If its code then where are the electrical police?
I don't think you'll find any code police for manufacturers, the closest thing would probably be U.L. That being said, there are many items manufactured and sold that aren't U.L. Listed, but that doesn't mean it's a good idea to use them. The so called "code police" for construction would the the AHJ and generally they do require all materials be U.L. Listed. I know of no laws requiring a manufacturer to have his products U.L. Listed before being allowed to sell them and I have serious reservations about some products that do carry a U.L. label.
 
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Old 08-11-12, 03:13 PM
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I know of no laws requiring a manufacturer to have his products U.L. Listed before being allowed to sell them and I have serious reservations about some products that do carry a U.L. label.
Second that. .
 
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