GFCI and AFCI branch circuit?"

Reply

  #1  
Old 08-08-12, 09:14 AM
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: USA
Posts: 79
GFCI and AFCI branch circuit?"

I am fixing up my old house in Eastern Colorado which was built in the 1950's. The house is a split level. There is a ground level entry from which you can go up six steps to get upstairs or go down nine steps to get downstairs. Downstairs is 1320 square feet and contains the kitchen, the dining room, the family room, and three bedrooms. Upstairs is 883 square feet and contains the bathroom, the laundry room, a T shaped living area, and a bedroom. I have completed the first phase of the project which was to upgrade the service from 100 amps overhead to 200 amps underground (permit number xxxxxxx). I am currently planning the next phase of the project which is to rewire the upstairs and to convert the top of the T part of the T shaped living area to a kitchen and dining area. The final phase of the project will be to rewire the entry and downstairs and to convert one of the bedrooms to a bathroom and a laundry room. I will pull the upstairs rewire permit as soon as I finish the upstairs planning.
Here is my question. My understanding of the 2011 NEC Handbook is that I need at least two 20 amp branch circuits for the kitchen and dining area outlets. The counter outlets must be GFCI and the wall outlets must be AFCI. If one branch circuit has both counter and wall outlets, how do I make the circuit both GFCI and AFCI? Will using an AFCI breaker and making the first outlet GFCI work?
 

Last edited by Tolyn Ironhand; 08-09-12 at 05:52 AM. Reason: removed permit number
Sponsored Links
  #2  
Old 08-08-12, 10:16 AM
Banned. Rule And/Or Policy Violation
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: KS
Posts: 1,896
You don't put AFCI on the kitchen, bathroom, unfinished basement, garage, or outdoors. They get GFCI only. Generally inaccessible kitchen receptacles such as for the garbage disposal/dishwasher, micro/hood, behind the refrigerator or gas range do not require GFCI or AFCI. If I remember correctly, the dining receptacles are GFCI if fed from the kitchen small appliance/countertop circuits, otherwise AFCI.
 

Last edited by JerseyMatt; 08-08-12 at 10:31 AM.
  #3  
Old 08-08-12, 09:11 PM
Nashkat1's Avatar
Member
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: USA
Posts: 8,470
My understanding of the 2011 NEC Handbook is that I need at least two 20 amp branch circuits for the kitchen and dining area outlets. The counter outlets must be GFCI and the wall outlets must be AFCI.
No. Two small appliance circuits are required. 20A each. GFCI protected. No AFCI.

Maybe this will help (originally posted by pcboss in Kitchen Wiring Clarifications):

From the 2011 NEC Article 210.52

(B) Small Appliances.(1) Receptacle Outlets Served.
In the kitchen, pantry, breakfast room, dining room, or similar area of a dwelling unit, the two or more 20-ampere small-appliance branch circuits required by 210.11(C)(1) shall serve all wall and floor receptacle outlets covered by 210.52(A), all countertop outlets covered by 210.52(C), and receptacle outlets for refrigeration equipment.
Exception No. 1: In addition to the required receptaclesspecified by 210.52, switched receptacles supplied from a general-purpose branch circuit as defined in 210.70(A)(1),Exception No. 1, shall be permitted.Exception No. 2: The receptacle outlet for refrigeration equipment shall be permitted to be supplied from an individual branch circuit rated 15 amperes or greater.
(2) No Other Outlets.
The two or more small-appliance branch circuits specified in 210.52(B)(1) shall have no other outlets.
Exception No. 1: A receptacle installed solely for the electrical supply to and support of an electric clock in any ofthe rooms specified in 210.52(B)(1).Exception No. 2: Receptacles installed to provide powerfor supplemental equipment and lighting on gas-fired ranges, ovens, or counter-mounted cooking units.
(3) Kitchen Receptacle Requirements.
Receptacles installed in a kitchen to serve countertop surfaces shall be supplied by not fewer than two small-appliance branch circuits,either or both of which shall also be permitted to supply receptacle outlets in the same kitchen and in other rooms specified in 210.52(B)(1). Additional small-appliance branch circuits shall be permitted to supply receptacle outlets in the kitchen and other rooms specified in 210.52(B)(1). No small appliance branch circuit shall serve more than one kitchen.


The 2011 NEC also has the wiring for kitchen lighting AFCI protected.
 
  #4  
Old 08-09-12, 01:32 AM
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: USA
Posts: 79
Thanks plus another question

Thanks. One of the 20 amp kitchen circuits will contain four counter top receptacles in the kitchen and the two wall receptacles in the dining area, all GFCI protected.
Another question. There is no sink in the laundry room. Do any of the outlets in the laundry room need to be AFCI or GFCI protected?
 
  #5  
Old 08-09-12, 05:57 AM
Tolyn Ironhand's Avatar
Group Moderator
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Twin Cities, MN
Posts: 11,984
The counter top receptacles are the two small appliance circuits. No other receptacles can be on those circuits. Add the dining room on its own 20 amp circuit that will be AFCI protected. No GFCI protection is needed.
 
  #6  
Old 08-09-12, 09:57 AM
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: USA
Posts: 79
Another questuion

Do the outlets in the laundry room need to be AFCI or GFCI protected if there is no sink in the laundry room? I did not see the laundry room on the list of rooms needing AFCI protection.
 
  #7  
Old 08-09-12, 10:10 AM
Group Moderator
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: WI/MN
Posts: 18,523
My understanding is a utility/laundry room needs GFCI protection.
 
  #8  
Old 08-09-12, 02:25 PM
Banned. Rule And/Or Policy Violation
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: KS
Posts: 1,896
Originally Posted by Tolyn Ironhand View Post
The counter top receptacles are the two small appliance circuits. No other receptacles can be on those circuits. Add the dining room on its own 20 amp circuit that will be AFCI protected. No GFCI protection is needed.
The dining room requires a SABC, which can be served by the same circuit(s) as the countertop receptacles if memory serves (meaning they are GFCI, not AFCI).. You just can't have lights/smoke alarms/etc on a SABC, and any additional circuits serving the dining room must be AFCI.
 
  #9  
Old 08-09-12, 02:30 PM
Banned. Rule And/Or Policy Violation
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: KS
Posts: 1,896
Originally Posted by mitch17 View Post
My understanding is a utility/laundry room needs GFCI protection.
Actually I don't think it requires GCFI unless there's a sink, but considering there's a water source with leak potential, you'd be dumb not to install GFCI in there anyway.
 
  #10  
Old 08-10-12, 09:14 PM
Nashkat1's Avatar
Member
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: USA
Posts: 8,470
There is no sink in the laundry room. Do any of the outlets in the laundry room need to be AFCI or GFCI protected?
No. You're right. GFCI is required within 6' of a laundry sink, even if that sink is in the master bedroom, but is not required in a laundry room unless there is a sink. AFCI is required for the branch circuits serving areas where people might sleep. Unless you're planning on curling up in the laundry room, or putting your in-laws there when they come to visit, then no, it doesn't need circuits with AFCI protection.
 
  #11  
Old 08-11-12, 05:03 AM
CasualJoe's Avatar
Member
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: USA
Posts: 9,221
AFCI is required for the branch circuits serving areas where people might sleep. Unless you're planning on curling up in the laundry room, or putting your in-laws there when they come to visit, then no, it doesn't need circuits with AFCI protection.
I agree the laundry room does not need AFCI protection, but AFCI protection is required in more than sleeping areas. The 2008 NEC requires combination type AFCI protection in all habitable rooms.
 
  #12  
Old 08-11-12, 02:10 PM
Nashkat1's Avatar
Member
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: USA
Posts: 8,470
I agree the laundry room does not need AFCI protection, but AFCI protection is required in more than sleeping areas. The 2008 NEC requires combination type AFCI protection in all habitable rooms.
Well, that was my understanding of the purpose behind it.

Anyway, to be clear, here's what's represented to be the full list; not sure which code cycle, but I'm pretty sure no earlier than 2008. It does include hallways and closets, which are generally within or immediately adjacent to sleeping areas, but I notice there are no laundry, utility, garage, unfinished basement, attic, outdoor, bathroom or kitchen circuits mentioned:

(B) Dwelling Unit Circuits. All 15A or 20A, 120V branch circuits in dwelling units supplying outlets in family rooms, dining rooms, living rooms, parlors, libraries, dens, bedrooms, sunrooms, recreation rooms, closets, hallways, or similar rooms or areas must be protected by a listed AFCI device of the combination type.
Source: Mike Holtís Illustrated Guide to Understanding the NEC Requirements for GFCI and AFCI Protection
 
  #13  
Old 08-15-12, 07:10 AM
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: USA
Posts: 79
Here is what my inspector says.

The inspector said all 120V lighting circuits must be AFCI even in the bathroom. All living area 120V convenience circuits must be AFCI except ones in the bathroom, kitchen counters, and within 6 ft of sink. He said to avoid any situation that would require AFCI and GFCI. He said make the dining area convenience receptacles AFCI only and not connected to the kitchen counter curcuits. He also said my 120V dedicated window air conditioner circuit in the bedroom had to be AFCI. I asked if I could use Leviton WS402 welder switches for disconnects for the cooktop and the wall oven. He said just use cord and plug. Thanks for all the help.
 
  #14  
Old 08-15-12, 10:25 AM
pcboss's Avatar
Forum Topic Moderator
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: Maryland
Posts: 14,361
You can install a GFI receptacle on an AFCI protected circuit.

You could feed the SABC into the dining receptacles first and then go the the countertop area and add the GFI.
 
  #15  
Old 08-15-12, 12:03 PM
Banned. Rule And/Or Policy Violation
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: KS
Posts: 1,896
Sounds like your inspector needs to brush up on his code.
 
  #16  
Old 08-15-12, 12:15 PM
pcboss's Avatar
Forum Topic Moderator
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: Maryland
Posts: 14,361
I thought that too Matt. Sad really.
 
  #17  
Old 08-15-12, 06:02 PM
CasualJoe's Avatar
Member
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: USA
Posts: 9,221
Here is what my inspector says.
What version of the NEC has been adopted in your area. The illustrated Mike Holt chart Nashkat posted is the best illustrated guide I have ever seen for understanding GFCI and AFCI requirements, but it's based on the 2008 NEC. There are probably some subtle changes in the 2011 NEC, but I am not familiar with what they may be.
 
  #18  
Old 08-24-12, 11:26 AM
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: USA
Posts: 79
More questions

The inspector said I can not have bedroom receptacles and kitchen lights on the same AFCI circuit. He also recommended not making washing machine circuit, refrigerator curcuit, dishwasher/garbage disposer circuit, or over the cooktop microwave circuit GFCI.

House is split level built in early 50's located in Lincoln County, Colorado. Colorado uses 2011 NEC.

I am remodeling in three phases. Phase one is upgrading the service from 100A overhead to 200A underground. Phase 1 is complete. Phase 2 is rewiring and adding a kitchen to the 883 sq ft upstairs. Phase 2 is in progress. Phase 3 is rewiring the 1320 sq ft downstairs. Phase 3 is in the future.

The current upstairs consists of a T shaped living room, a bedroom, a laundry room, and a bathroom. The revised upstairs will consist of a kitchen/dining/living area (kitchen/dining being the top of the T), a bedroom, a laundry room, and a bathroom.

Here is the new plan for the 120V circuits:

A 20A AFCI lighting circuit will contain 1 porch light, 4 recessed lights in the bedroom, 13 recessed lights in the kitchen/living/dining area, 2 recessed lights in the laundry room, and 2 recessed lights and 1 over the sink light in the bathroom. 75W+21x75W+240W=1890W

A 20A AFCI circuit for the 8 receptacles in the living area. 8x180W=1440W

A 20A AFCI circuit for the 2 receptacles in the dining area. 2x180W=360W

A 20A AFCI circuit for the 4 receptacles in the bedroom. 4x180W=720W

A 20A AFCI dedicated circuit for the window air conditioner in the bedroom.

A 20A dedicated circuit for the washing machine.

A 20A circuit for the three laundry room receptacles. 3x180W=540W.

A 20A dedicated circuit for the refrigerator.

A 20A dedicated circuit for the dish washer/garbage disposer.

A 20A dedicated circuit for the over-the-cooktop microwave.

A 20A GFCI circuit for two countertop receptacles in the bathroom.

A 20A GFCI circuit for 1 wall receptacle in the bathroom.

A 20A GFCI circuit for 4 countertop receptacles in the kitchen.

A 20A GFCI circuit for 4 countertop receptacles in the kitchen.

Is this OK? can you think of a better way? I will post the 240V circuits separately
 
  #19  
Old 08-24-12, 01:21 PM
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: USA
Posts: 79
More questions continued

Here are my 240V ciecuits (each has one receptacle):

A 30A circuit for the dryer

A 30A circuit for the water heater (I proposed 20A and the inspector recommended I raise it to 30A)

A 40A circuit for the cooktop

A 40A circuit for the wall oven (I proposed 30A and the inspector recommended I raise it to 40A)

A 20A circuit for a window air conditioner for the kitchen/dining/living area.

Is this OK? Can you think of a better way?
 
  #20  
Old 08-24-12, 03:53 PM
Banned. Rule And/Or Policy Violation
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: KS
Posts: 1,896
Now I know your inspector is pulling requirements out his butt. While it is considered generally poor practice to put receptacles and lights on the same circuit, there is nothing in the code that bars you from putting the kitchen lights on the same circuit as the bedroom receptacles. Only the SABC's are barred from having lighting on them. There is also nothing barring you from having a GFCI on the washing machine, and you should, since it is next to a source of water. If it ever leaks or a hose bursts (or even if a connection goes bad and causes current to leak), would you want to touch the metal appliance without GFCI protection? Me either.

You are NOT required to have the bathroom light (or any other bathroom circuit) on an AFCI. Normally the bathroom light/fan are protected by the same GFCI as the outlet(s). Again, you will be touching the switch with wet hands on a daily basis. An AFCI WILL NOT PROTECT YOU from leaking current. You also do not need the two separate receptacle circuits for the bathroom. The biggest draw you will usually ever have in there is the hair dryer. You can put all three receptacles on the same 20A circuit, or if you want you can have the two. That's up to you.

You should break up the lighting into two or more circuits. Not only are you exactly at the limit (15.8A), but if that breaker trips you are totally in the dark. My preference is to stagger lighting between breakers so that if any one circuit trips, the next room still has light. I also like the idea of putting any lighting in the room containing the panel on its own breaker.

As for receptacles, you generally want to avoid having all receptacles in a room on a single breaker (although nothing says you can't). With all the stuff we plug in, it becomes easy to accidentally overload a room (think vacuuming). Given that all living areas require AFCI now, it's not a stretch to share circuits with adjoining rooms.

The cooktop circuit I would plan for the future and run #6 for 50a. The new induction cooktops suck a lot of juice, but a standard cooktop is usually 30a. Your wall oven is usually 30a for a single, 40a for a double/convection. He was right to suggest that. Water heaters almost always require 30a.
 

Last edited by JerseyMatt; 08-24-12 at 04:53 PM.
  #21  
Old 08-25-12, 12:18 AM
Member
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: USA
Posts: 54
one 20a circuit in the living room? unless i read it wrong, Id have a few.
 
  #22  
Old 08-25-12, 02:58 AM
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: USA
Posts: 79
Floor Plan

Attached is the current floor plan. It matches the current circuit list and does not include new suggested changes.
 
Attached Images  
  #23  
Old 08-25-12, 03:47 AM
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: USA
Posts: 79
Another Question

Both the old and new panels are in the laundry room. Would it be a good idea if the 120V circuits in the laundry room were as follows?

1 20A dedicated GFCI circuit for the washing machine.

1 20A GFCI circuit for the three wall receptacles and the two recessed lights.
 
  #24  
Old 08-25-12, 05:49 AM
CasualJoe's Avatar
Member
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: USA
Posts: 9,221
1 20A dedicated GFCI circuit for the washing machine.

1 20A GFCI circuit for the three wall receptacles and the two recessed lights.
There is no requirement for the laundry room lights to be GFCI protected, but I believe under the 2011 NEC they would need to be AFCI protected. The wall receptacles don't need GFCI protection unless within 6 feet of a sink or unless the laundry rooom is unfinished such as in an unfinished basement with concrete floor. There is nothing in the NEC that prevents all of these receptacles from being GFCI protected if you so wish.
 
  #25  
Old 08-25-12, 06:53 AM
Banned. Rule And/Or Policy Violation
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: KS
Posts: 1,896
Ok a few things I see right off the bat.. Nothing wrong with them code-wise but you will definitely want to consider them designwise..

1. I missed all the living room outlets being on the same breaker. You want to split that, for the same reason as the bedroom. Unfortunately due to the layout, you won't be able to share circuits between rooms as I suggested before. I had something different in my head the way you described it.

2. You don't want all of the kitchen and dining room lights on the same switch. Have the dining room lights on the three way switch and have a separate switch for the kitchen lights. Also in my own experience, lighting the center of a kitchen like that makes for lots of annoying shadows when you're working. Make sure the lights are located directly above the countertops.

3. Either install two more lights in the dining room bump-out or plan for a chandelier. That is presumably where the table will be, and you always want to have light directly over the table.

4. The living room lights are controlled from two different locations, which you will quickly find is annoying at best. Depending on where you plan on putting the TV, you should have them controlled in two groups of three or three groups of two, using three-way dimmers.

5. Since you have window air conditioning, you should plan for ceiling fans in the bedroom and living room. They make a world of difference as far as comfort and the efficiency of your window units.

6. I do not see an exhaust fan in the bathroom.. While you are not required to have one since there is a window, you should. It'll prevent moisture/mold/mildew issues down the road and keep the overall humidity in the house down (less work for the A/C)

7. Remove the outside receptacle from the bedroom circuit. It should be on its own breaker.

8. The receptacle in the northwest corner of the living room can not be on the same circuit as the kitchen countertop SABC. It requires AFCI.
 
  #26  
Old 08-25-12, 08:57 AM
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: USA
Posts: 79
Reply to JerseyMatt

Yes, I short-changed you on information.

The ceiling is a shade over 84 inches. The ceiling in the dormer area (dining room bump-out) slopes from 81 inches in the north to 72 inches in the south. Eastern Colorado is a desert, our problem is not enough humidity. The receptacle in the northwest corner of the living room is really on the back side of the peninsula. The peninsula is closed on the living room side and open on the kitchen side for two chairs. The cabinet north of the peninsula is floor-to-ceiling and the cabinet to the south of the wall oven is floor-to-ceiling. The cabinet in the bathroom behind the door is floor-to-ceiling also. The thing on the living room wall to the left of the laundry room door is a blue flame propane heater hanging on the wall. When i rework the downstairs, I plan to install central heating and air conditioning. Probably geo-thermal since our 22 acres gives us plenty of room to lay the lines. That will probably be a couple of years from now since I am getting pretty old and work pretty slow. The items on the living room wall to the right of the laundry room door is a wall mounted TV with a shelf above it for the satellite box. The outside receptacle is on its own circuit but the porch light is on the circuit with the bedroom lights.

I will update the circuit list per your recommendations and repost the revised list and floor plan.

Thanks
 
  #27  
Old 08-25-12, 02:59 PM
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: USA
Posts: 79
Here are the revised floor plans. Will now work on the circuits. The dining area fan will have lights, the other two won't. Is it OK to put the fans on the light circuits?
 
Attached Images   
  #28  
Old 08-25-12, 09:38 PM
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: USA
Posts: 79
Revised circuit plan

Here is the modified circuit plan after suggestions. Keep the suggestions coming.

120V circuits (all receptacles tamper resistant duplex)

AFCI circuits

A 20A AFCI lighting circuit with 1 porch light, 4 recessed lights in the bedroom (3 way switched), 1 ceiling fan in the bedroom, and 7 recessed lights in the kitchen area (6 are 3 way switched). 75W+4x75W+65W+7x75w=965W

A 20A AFCI lighting circuit with 1 ceiling fan with 4 lights in the dining area, 6 recessed lights in the living area (2 sets of 3 with 3 way dimmer switches), 1 ceiling fan in the living area, and 2 recessed lights in the laundry room. 65W+4x60W+6x75W+65W+2x75W=970W

A 20A AFCI circuit for 4 wall receptacles in the living area. 4x180W=720W

A 20A AFCI circuit for 4 wall receptacles in the living area. 4x180W=720W

A 20A AFCI circuit for the 2 wall receptacles in the dining area. 2x180W=360W

A 20A AFCI circuit for the 4 wall receptacles in the bedroom. 4x180W=720W

A 20A AFCI circuit for the window air conditioner wall receptacle in the bedroom.

GFCI circuits (first receptacle will be GFCI)

A 20A GFCI circuit for the 2 over the counter wall receptacles, 2 recessed lights, 1 over the sink 4 bulb light, and 1 ventilation fan in the bathroom. 2x180W+2x75W+4x60W+10W=760W

A 20A GFCI circuit for the 1 wall receptacle in the bathroom.

A 20A GFCI circuit for 4 over the counter wall receptacles in the kitchen. 4x180W=720W

A 20A GFCI circuit for 3 over the counter wall and 1 under the peninsula wall receptacles in the kitchen. 4x180W=720W

A 20A GFCI circuit for 1 weather resistant receptacle in a weatherproof box for the back porch.

A 20A GFCI dedicated circuit for the washing machine.

Neither AFCI nor GFCI circuits

A 20A circuit for the three laundry room wall receptacles. 3x180W=540W.

A 20A dedicated circuit for the refrigerator.

A 20A dedicated circuit for the dish washer/garbage disposer.

A 20A dedicated circuit for the over the cook top microwave.

240V circuits (each has one receptacle):

A 30A circuit for the dryer.

A 30A circuit for the water heater.

A 40A circuit for the cook top (use #6 wire).

A 30A circuit for the wall oven (use #8 wire).

A 20A circuit for a window air conditioner for the kitchen/dining/living area.
 
  #29  
Old 08-26-12, 05:47 AM
Banned. Rule And/Or Policy Violation
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: KS
Posts: 1,896
That looks good to me. The only thing I would tell you to ask about is the peninsula outlet. Where you have it located, it MIGHT be considered "in" the living room. Worst case you will have to move it to the end of the peninsula where it would technically be in the dining room.

Other than that is see no other issues. And sorry I didn't get back to you yesterday but yes you can absolutely put ceiling fans on lighting circuits.
 
  #30  
Old 08-28-12, 06:39 PM
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: USA
Posts: 79
Thanks

Thanks a lot. I feel a lot better about the design after the help.

Happy Trails,

Dave
 
  #31  
Old 08-29-12, 05:02 AM
pcboss's Avatar
Forum Topic Moderator
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: Maryland
Posts: 14,361
As a side note, the lighting circuits are figured based on the largest trim and bulb combination, not what is installed.

The wall receptacle in the bathroom can be added to the vanity receptacles also.
 
Reply

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Thread Tools
Search this Thread
Display Modes
'