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Any Experience here with RealTime Power Consumption Monitoring?

Any Experience here with RealTime Power Consumption Monitoring?


  #1  
Old 09-08-12, 09:55 PM
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Any Experience here with RealTime Power Consumption Monitoring?

Electricity bill keeps climbing and wanted to nail down the culprits. With all the talk of "green" over the last few years, thought there would be some good solutions out there with some killer aps that could allow me to monitor and control power usage on a laptop, as well as mobile devices. I must have been smoking something.

Had been hoping for circuit-based monitoring, but after much research, have found the TED systems to be the only thing close, but it only monitors the entire house consumption. This would still be preferential to walking around with an individual device monitor. Any of the circuit-based solutions seemed to involve breadboards, RS-485 interfaces and still couldn't get it much below $50/circuit without winding wires around c clamps myself.

Has anyone installed something worthwhile (at the house or circuit level) and found it useful? Would appreciate any insight and clues to suppliers. Thanks!
 
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Old 09-08-12, 10:11 PM
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You won't find anything circuit-based unless you want to build it yourself. You could probably do something with an Arduino board and some pickup coils. Basically the tried and true method for measuring what consumes what is the Kill-A-Watt. They're $15-20, and you simply plug it into each device, let it run for a while, and it will tally how many kWh it uses.
 
  #3  
Old 09-11-12, 12:54 PM
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You won't find anything circuit-based unless you want to build it yourself.
I looked at this circuit-level system a few years ago but decided I had enough projects to keep me busy for a while. They had a decent launch price for monitoring and equipment and I recall it went up quite a bit after that. It looks like they've improved the product somewhat since launch, by keeping all the CT wiring inside your load center.

Looks like about $900-$1000 for equipment, not including labor, then $13.50 a month for monitoring up to 44 circuits, if prepaid. Based on what I read on a dealer's site, you could install the system and set up monitoring for one month, then drop the monitoring. You would then get raw data out of the unit, so you'd have to set up your own interface if you wanted any useful info out of it.

eMonitor Features that save money on energy cost, heating, refrigerattion, and air conditioning
 
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Old 09-11-12, 01:04 PM
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That is a HUGE expense. Unless you're Al Gore with his $2000/mo electric bill, I fail to see how this isn't counterproductive in a residential home. Especially when it costs $14 a month. For a commercial application? Sure. But $1000 in equipment plus $14 a month to tell you how to save $12 a month? That's just silly.
 
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Old 09-12-12, 11:35 AM
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But $1000 in equipment plus $14 a month to tell you how to save $12 a month? That's just silly.
You may be right. But the idea is that simply monitoring and reporting has the power to change behavior. If you add an incentive on top of that, you might change the way people think, too.

For example, if spending $1000 and seeing all kinds of cool graphs and pie charts showing day-to-day reductions in consumption leads a family to conserve and eliminate waste, it may be a worthwhile investment. If you can produce a chart and say, "Hey look at all this energy being consumed in your bedroom. If you can figure out how to consistently get that down by 25%, I'll split the difference with you for six months."

However if you've already gotten your base load shaved down as far as practical and everybody in the home is motivated to turn off lights and computers, you're not going to save much.

Personally, I haven't been much motivated to change yet without measurement. I have a pretty good idea of our base load and what the big loads are costing us each month, and I consider that stuff pretty well beyond reach, but I'd love to get the vampires isolated and be able to see in conclusive terms that what I did made a difference. Kind of like how it's easier to mow a lawn that really needs it, than one that only needs a half-inch taken off the top.
 
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Old 09-12-12, 12:01 PM
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Kind of like how it's easier to mow a lawn that really needs it, than one that only needs a half-inch taken off the top.
I always found it easier to mow 1/2". Less dumping....quicker mowing. Lol

I follow my wife around the house and turn off the lights and fans she turns on, after she leaves the room. Seriously...yesterday I went in from the garage and the bedroom, main bath, laundry room, second bath, kitchen and dining room were all on. She was in the office with the small desk lamp on.


I just can't turn off all the vampire stuff. Not going to wait for the sync up on the cable box and modem and won't listen to the harping about phones or GPS not charged because someone didn't turn on the power strip. I've checked with all real loads turned off and just the loads above turned on...and the dial barely moves over a 5 min period. Not worth the effort IMO.
 
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Old 09-12-12, 12:16 PM
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I always found it easier to mow 1/2". Less dumping....quicker mowing.
Good point, poor choice of the word "easier" on my part. Let's say I am more motivated to mow a lawn that really needs it.

I also seem to be the only one in the house who understands that switches can be turned OFF as well as ON. It's funny that I can't get people to turn the lights OFF but they won't turn the bathroom and kitchen exhaust fans ON.

My meter manual has a formula for determining consumption based on the speed the dial emulator is blinking, but it's too complicated to bother interpreting.

The bottom line for me is that the power company has no interest in having me reduce my consumption, since that's how they make their money. So if I truly want to save, I have to shell out some bucks. In some places the PUC has decided that all ratepayers should pay for load reduction programs, but not much of that around here besides the usual promotional brochures.
 
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Old 09-12-12, 04:38 PM
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Has anyone installed something worthwhile (at the house or circuit level) and found it useful? Would appreciate any insight and clues to suppliers.
I have an EnviR Monitor, it's a cool toy!

Envi IHD - In home display
 
  #9  
Old 09-12-12, 05:03 PM
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I picked up a Power Cost Monitor (TM) by Blue Line at my local big box mega-mart homecenter yesterday. It was on close out for $22.06 with a former price of $109.something. Looks interesting and I'll get it going later this week.

As for "vampire power" and its costs...I ran my cell phone charger through my Kill-A-Watt meter for about four months and extrapolating out the cost for a year it didn't even amount to a nickel. I use the clock on my microwave oven and I leave my DVD recorders in standby because I record about 80% of the television I watch. I start my computer in the morning and I leave it in sleep mode when I'm not actively using it. My modem, VoIP adapter and routers are on 24/7 along with three outside lights (13 watt CFLs) that are on a photocell. I too often have more lights on than necessary and the same with the television. My electrical rate is 8.515 cents per kilowatt hour and my average consumption is around 9 to 14 kWh per day with a bill of $50 to %60 every two months. While on a percentage basis I might be able to shave 5% or maybe even as much as 10% off my consumption there is NO economic incentive to do so. In my opinion so-called "vampire power" is of no interest to an individual but it DOES make a difference to the utilities when you add up several tens of thousands of customers.

I wanted to go solar for just my Internet equipment but the payback would be something like 20 years and I don't expect to live that long.
 
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Old 09-12-12, 08:02 PM
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My electrical rate is 8.515 cents per kilowatt hour and my average consumption is around 9 to 14 kWh per day with a bill of $50 to %60 every two months.
I would agree that in your case there is no payback. However the magnitude of your bill is small compared to mine, and we don't know what the OP is paying. Somebody with a pool pump, ponds, electric heat, media room, home office etc. AND a high unit cost is much more likely to find data worthwhile.

I pay just over $0.14 per kWh. Daily consumption runs 60 kWh summer and 35 kWh winter. My gas & electric cost about $3200 per year combined. 5% of that is $160. 10% is $320. If I could save that five or ten percent even through behavioral changes rather than just reducing vampire loads, it would not be an unreasonable investment.

You know how there are energy auditors who do a blower door test of your house? And use a thermal imaging camera to check heat loss?

They could hook one of these up to somebody's load center in a similar fashion, put CTs on the circuits, leave it on for a week or a month or whatever, and get pretty much the same results for a few hundred rather than sinking $1000 and a monthly fee. There would be some liability from opening the load center, so that would be a hang-up. But I'm thinking for certain clients with big enough bills, it might be a money maker for the auditor and cheaper for the customer than buying.
 
  #11  
Old 09-12-12, 08:37 PM
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I still don't see the point. If you already follow your wife/kids around turning off the lights, you already know what the problem is. It's not like you can turn the refrigerator off, and unless you have ToD metering, putting the HWH on a timer or cooking after 8pm isn't going to save you any money.. You know what your A/C raises your bill each summer, so you can simply turn the thermostat up or set a program.

Seriously, what else could this $1000 +$14/mo gadget POSSIBLY tell you that you don't already know?? And even at the price you're paying for power, what could it possibly make you change that would justify its cost/make it pay for itself?
 
  #12  
Old 09-12-12, 09:00 PM
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Seriously, what else could this $1000 +$14/mo gadget POSSIBLY tell you that you don't already know?? And even at the price you're paying for power, what could it possibly make you change that would justify its cost/make it pay for itself?
If the goal is to get to "real time" monitoring, "real time" reporting and "real time" payment aren't far off. Those are things that have a powerful effect on behavior. For example it's a lot less painful to spend $100 on drinks using a credit card, than by putting down 100 $1 bills on the bar. So all other things being equal, who drinks more: The person paying in cash or the one with the credit card?

You could have a digital display in the house adding up "money spent on electricity so far today" and "this month" and "this year". You could have one in the shower showing how much that shower is costing, and so on all over the house, or just virtual meters that reported in a daily e-mail.

If that money were withdrawn from the account on the day after use, it would have a much larger effect on behavior than taking it out a month later.

I remember somebody telling me about a company's policy to pay their workers on Monday for the week ending the previous Friday. Not issuing payment a week or two later. Why? Because they wanted employees to make the connection between the work done and the payment received.

When I was traveling in Europe years ago, if I wanted a hot shower I paid cash for the hostel owner to light the burner on the heater. When the burner shut off, there was my hot water for my 5-minute shower. I'll tell you, there's a reason some Europeans stink! They're cheap!

OK, off the soapbox for me! Have a good night.
 
  #13  
Old 09-12-12, 10:21 PM
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Sorry man, that is such bull. We are not headed for 'real time payments' for utilities. Even if it were being proposed somewhere, there is absolutely NO WAY that it would ever go forward because it is an utterly stupid idea. In order to even BEGIN to make that work, people would have to be paid daily, check deposits into the bank and the ACH would have to become instantaneous, etc. They'd have to make it so that you can get your money at least that fast. Your hostel example is totally non-relevant because the only things that have anything like that ARE hostels and short term apartments. You will NEVER see anything like that in a private home, especially in the US. Your vision of 'your daily cost' monitors all over the house is very intrusive in a 'big brother' kind of way, and while it may have an effect on some people, most will ignore it. Just like putting huge warnings on cigarettes, running disgusting ad campaigns, and adding 200-300% tax doesn't make people quit smoking (and people even still START smoking in spite of all of that). Ever see the movie In Time? That's a pretty close parallel to what you are suggesting.

Just like spending $1000 + $14 a month to learn how to save $12 a month on your bill is a stupid idea. That was the whole point of the OP.. He doesn't want to spend $50 per circuit plus a monthly fee, he wanted something simple and cheap.

That's why I suggested Arduino. It's a cheap, versatile microprocessor platform that can be transformed into basically anything. It's like $50-100 for a Mega, which has 15 inputs. CT's are a couple bucks each. Ethernet interface is a couple bucks. Throw in some basic components and a simple program and you have 15 circuits of real time power monitoring for a fraction of what that stupid emonitor thing costs.

But once again, it's not going to tell you anything you don't already know. You KNOW the A/C is the biggest summer draw. You KNOW there's nothing you can do about the kitchen or hot water heater consumption. Vampire power is a total non-story propagated by the manufacturers of power strips to boost their sales. As Furd said all of the vampire power in your house adds up to maybe a dollar a year. Your bill is rising because electricity is getting more expensive thanks to a certain socialist's war on coal. Just change over to CFL's, turn the lights and TV off when you leave a room, and be done with it.
 
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Old 09-13-12, 11:28 AM
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As Furd said all of the vampire power in your house adds up to maybe a dollar a year.
Um, no, I didn't state it quite that way. I wrote that just my cell phone charger used less than a nickel's worth a year. I suspect that ALL my "vampire power" probably adds up to six or seven dollars a year, maybe even double that, but in the whole scheme of things it is such a trifling amount that it is not worth the HUGE inconvenience (to me) to attempt to reduce or eliminate it.

Others MAY be able to reduce their "vampire power" significantly without major changes in their lifestyles. Still, the overall effect upon the electric bill will be minor.

As for the rest of Matt's post...I agree completely.
 
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Old 09-13-12, 01:11 PM
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Yeah well I extrapolated a bit.. I also don't consider things like your router/modem/oven clock/etc to be vampire power, because those things are on and functioning (not that they draw more than a couple watts each anyway). The term vampire power is buzzed around devices like TV's and cell phone chargers that draw standby power when off or have no load connected - that's what the media (and the power strip/outlet switch manufacturers) makes the big deal about, claiming it can be costing you $10-20 or more a month.. Which is a flat-out lie.

The standby draw on a TV, DVD recorder, or sleeping computer isn't much more than an idle cell phone charger - MAYBE a watt or two.. So assuming a standard house has 15-20 such devices, and assuming the high $0.14/kWh, you're still only talking a buck or three a year for everything.

In all reality, the internal surges created by constantly turning devices on and off with a power strip or by pulling the plug is actually harder on the electronics, and leads to premature burnout. And that will cost you a lot more to fix or replace than you ever would've saved by being a fanatic.
 
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Old 09-13-12, 01:32 PM
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Why spend anything at all on a power meter you can tap into when you are away from your house when your utility might just provide it for you. Our utility PEPCO has provided smart meters for every house on its grid and with the smart meter if you sign up your account online you can actually see how much energy your house uses. I haven't done it myself I have too many other things to do right now and I can't be bothered with it.
The reason PEPCO is doing this isn't so much about making their energy greener though it is because of the criticism they have received because of the power outages in our area during bad storms. There have been outages too for no reason at all mainly in Montgomery county and finally the government gave the rate commission the authority to impose fines, something it could never do before and not long ago PEPCO was fined. So now PEPCO will now know a bit more about who's power is off even without anyone calling although they still want people to report outages on the phone. If your utility doesn't already have a smart meter system I encourage you to call them and ask them when such a system might be available. If more people call then action will be taken to change the meters, it is basically what happened here in Maryland enough customers wanted change and eventually it happened.
 
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Old 09-13-12, 02:05 PM
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JerseyMatt, I didn't mean to raise your ire, I just wanted to show that there was something out there that I'd seen that the OP might want to consider.

The equipment I linked costs about $24 per circuit for the 44-CT unit. The monthly monitoring is not required. The OP wanted "killer apps" and circuit-based monitoring. I got the impression from his comments that he was not looking to build anything.

My point is simply that monitoring and reporting consumption affects consumption, and it affects consumption more if it's reported in real time or close to real time. If you think it does not, you might want to mention your assertion next time you run into a social scientist. When it comes to the human mind, we have a lot to learn. I know I do!
 
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Old 09-13-12, 05:37 PM
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It's still $1000. And again, given the number of loads in your house that are nearly invariable month to month, it will not amount to any significant savings, which means it will not be a meaningful investment for one looking to save money. It may help a treehugger feel better about himself for saving 1kWh worth of emissions per month, but most of us can't justify such a useless expense. There's plenty of other things I'd spend a grand on.

My electric bill is about $150 in the winter and $250 in the summer. I've switched to CFL's, I don't leave things on, and I have switched my hot water and stove to gas. Aside from using candles, not watching tv, getting rid of my computers, and sitting in sweltering heat, I can't think of any possible way to lower that bill. In this economy most people are in the same situation - they can't cut consumption anymore because there's nothing left to cut without it interfering with daily life. And putting it on some fancy little graph isn't going to change that. The electric bill is getting more expensive in larger part because the electricity is getting more expensive, and to a lesser degree some increased consumption.
 
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Old 09-16-12, 10:57 AM
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OP here - sorry, but did not get any notifications so thought the thread had died. Your responses confirmed my initial scan of available options and my general conclusion that most of the options don't make a lot of sense. In addition, I did run into the z-wave series of equipment, but at $50 per switch or outlet, still has the same payback as solar (20 years) so that isn't happening.

Some background on my motivations:

1) Util bill runs $400 min, has broken $700 a month here this summer. Gas price and consumption is not a major factor so focusing on electricity.

2) Have a swimming pool in northern climate. Pump is 10 years old and wondering if that has contributed (aging, the filter was clogged). If I could evaluate the performance, could decide whether to change it out for one of those multi-speed units.

2) Have an in-law type addition for an adult care situation with a full 2nd kitchen, compressor, laundry, etc. Would like to determine the cost of the unit with some data as I could better bill the care agency.

3) With dual appliances and compressors, some approaching ten years, would like to know if I have any that are hogs more than others and assess replacement.

4) Do have similar disbelief amongst some in the house that turning things off has an impact - have even installed the sensor/timer switches a couple of places and they get overridden. Would be helpful to have some better data.

All in all, running around with a kill-a-watt is going to be minor as tracking the switched circuits, 220v and hardwired hogs (a/c, pool pump) is not possible. Looks like a may go with the TED - I think I can get $200 in savings off an average bill of $600 months within two years.

Thanks for everyone's input.
 
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Old 09-16-12, 09:34 PM
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If you want to cut your bill and have less cost I have a few thoughts some of which you probably have thought of. Does your utility have a plan where you allow them to cycle off and on your air conditioning unit? If so you might want to ask them to do that especially with a high electric bill. Also I have heard of mini split air conditioning units where you don't have ducts and it sort of works like a window unit but has a regular compressor. These same units can also work as heat pumps if you want that model. Not sure what your budget is nor how old your present equipment is but those are just a few thoughts I had. Good luck to you!
 
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Old 09-16-12, 10:29 PM
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Thanks for the reply. Control over the A/C control is already a "domestic issue" and inviting the power company in would be the equivalent of a third-man-in hockey fight. However, actually proving the "keep it at the same temperature" strategy works, as well as verifying my suspicions that the one side-mounted carrier fan unit is struggling and consuming more electricity would be great.

I do like the idea of split-ductless, as addressing 1 or 2 rooms would allow me to shut down the compressor that covers 12-15 rooms. However, it seems the dealers protect availability and won't allow you to install your own, thought it doesn't seem mystical.

Have you or others have a positive diy experience on this? Was hoping to use Sanyo or Fujitsu project as they perform remarkably well when I am over there.
 
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Old 02-25-13, 11:33 PM
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I've been using an [link redacted] for the last few years, we were getting ridiculous energy bills cos we wasting quite a lot (mostly the kids). This meter looks a bit dated now, but it's done it's job, my electricity bill is down, even on the cost that it was 3 years ago. My utility company are hiking their prices every few months so I've found it's a good way to keep my eye on what i am using.

As I say, the unit is a little old now, but I've heard that you can now buy systems that allow you yo view your real time consumption online....has anyone got any recommendations?

Thanks
As
 

Last edited by ray2047; 02-26-13 at 03:16 AM.
  #23  
Old 02-26-13, 07:41 PM
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actually proving the "keep it at the same temperature" strategy works, as well as verifying my suspicions that the one side-mounted carrier fan unit is struggling and consuming more electricity would be great.
The "keep it at the same temperature" strategy is probably not the most effective one for lowering your costs. Zones, plus the most flexible programmable thermostats you can get for your system, are likely to help. If you have any ceiling fans, setting them to blow up in the winter and down in the summer, at the lowest speed, and letting them run 24/7/365 is likely to help.

Trees will help; air sealing, insulation and ventilation will help; awnings will help.

To get back to your original question, the EnviR Monitor that CasualJoe mentioned looks intriguing. At less than $200... checking further.
 
  #24  
Old 02-26-13, 09:20 PM
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The "keep it at the same temperature" strategy is for use with heat pumps that have electric back-up heat. Also for air conditioning (cooling) because once cooled if you let the temperature rise again it takes an inordinate amount of run time to get it back down.
 
  #25  
Old 03-01-13, 10:44 AM
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Real Time Power Consumption Monitoring

Hi,
I've been reading the thread about Power Consumption Monitoring.
I am always concerned with wasting energy...It's equivalent to throwing money away or giving it to someone else like the power company.
Something we have in our area in Central Illinois is Power Co-ops. They generate no electricity, rather purchase it from Power Company which generates the electricity. Our Co-op was the lowest priced energy in the state until their contract expired two years ago. They searched diligently for another source of electric and went with a consortium of Power Co-ops to keep the price as low as possible to their customers.
Saying all that...We are still faced with a 40% rate increase. The rate increase began two years ago by being phased in 1/3 of the new rate increased each year for three years. This year (2013) is our third year of the new rate increases.
Saying all that...I really watch my power consumption!

The local Power Co-op has a website. One of the neat things on their website is a power usage/consumption monitoring package for each customer to use at will. We can see the overall monthly usage, Daily usage, hourly usage, etc. It's rather complete and easy to use. I use it to test power consumption of devices. Example: If the Electric clothes dryer is started at a specific time...you can monitor your consumption of that device for that time period.

Just wondering if your Power company has something similar? I use it all the time testing grain dryers, air conditioning units, power saws, shop heaters, horse tank heaters, etc.

Just a thought for you.

Deamer1
 
  #26  
Old 03-01-13, 02:14 PM
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I'm pretty sure the investor-owned utility near my area has this provision. They also own the natural gas utility and that I know has some kind of website monitoring provisions. MY PUD does not offer web monitoring because to do so would require a huge capital expense in changing out the meters to ones that could be read remotely.

I do have a Blue Line Energy Monitor that I picked up for $23. on a close-out at the local Big Box Mega-mart homecenter. I still haven't attached the transmitter to the meter but I have been using it to monitor outside air temperatures, 58 degrees right now. Maybe I'll put the transmitter on the meter after I take my nap but don't hold your breath. I think I got this thing last October.

Power Cost Monitor | Electricity Usage
 
 

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