consolidating 2 baseboard heaters under 1 thermostat

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  #1  
Old 11-13-12, 11:01 AM
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consolidating 2 baseboard heaters under 1 thermostat

I have a setup where there are two baseboard heaters in a 16x25 room and there are two thermostats in the same room on the same circuit. I would like to reduce this to a single, programmable switch.

Everything runs on a single, 20 amp, 240 volt circuit. At 240 the heaters are rated at 1750 watts each and are 6 foot long. The below (yeah, it's rough) diagram shows how it is currently wired.

[ATTACH=CONFIG]5480[/ATTACH]

BB1 and BB2 are the 6ft long baseboard heating elements.
W1 and W2 are wires that are snaked along in the baseboard upper hood.
T1 and T2 are manual, single pole thermostats.

I need to eliminate T2. I will replace with a 4000watt rated single pole (2 wire) thermostat. (single pole is acceptable under my local code)

I would like to do this without tearing up my walls/baseboards if possible.

Could I just snake a return wire through the baseboard in the same space as W1 that would split from the return feed from T1? If so, do I need to be careful of thermal rating on the wire or any such thing?

Any suggestions?
 
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  #2  
Old 11-13-12, 09:55 PM
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Could I just snake a return wire through the baseboard in the same space as W1 that would split from the return feed from T1? If so, do I need to be careful of thermal rating on the wire or any such thing?
Not sure what you mean. Are you asking if you can run one single piece of one conductor wire ?
 
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Old 11-15-12, 12:20 PM
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Everything runs on a single, 20 amp, 240 volt circuit... The below (yeah, it's rough) diagram shows how it is currently wired.
You cannot add a single conductor not run in the same raceway as the other wires in the circuit. How are the two wires run from one heater to the other now?

Also, your diagram appears to show each T-stat connecting the two legs of the 240V circuit to each other. Is that correct?
 
  #4  
Old 11-15-12, 03:05 PM
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Easiest would be if you could put the new thermostat at the right end of BB1
 

Last edited by Nashkat1; 11-19-12 at 04:20 PM. Reason: clarify and simplify
  #5  
Old 11-16-12, 07:56 PM
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I think we may have been over-engineering this. We may have been thrown off by your diagram.

Regardless, you should be able to re-work the splices, and maybe add a jumper inside the heaters so that one of the two hot wires gets to your new thermostat without connecting to anything else. Then you connect the other wire from the thermostat to feed back through one leg of the heaters.
 
  #6  
Old 11-19-12, 07:19 AM
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Just to be clear....it can be done if ALL the following issues are addressed.

The thermostat is physically located at the end of the heater (not up on the wall)

There is a chase running the length of the heater where the new wire can be run.

ALL connections must occur inside the built-in junction boxes at each end of the heaters.

The new feeder wire must be 12 gauge as it supplies power to BOTH heaters.

As shown below....the new chase wire replaces the power feed to the thermostat.

The old chase wire will then feed power to the second heater.





 

Last edited by Nashkat1; 12-10-12 at 03:56 PM. Reason: Remove formatting
  #7  
Old 11-19-12, 09:55 AM
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usually the existing carryover wire in the "chase" is above the element, this requires high temp wire,
 
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Old 12-10-12, 07:03 AM
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Okay, somehow I wasn't notified of these responses, I thought I was being ignored in this forum.

Halton: Your answer is what I had been contemplating doing, and Braether3 thank you for the comment about high-temp wire. I was curious about that and will pick up a single conductor 12 gauge, high temp wire for this purpose.

Halton, I am curious as to why you say the thermostat must be on the unit? In this case the thermostat is on the wall on the opposite side of the room. The wall thermostat is 400 watts rated and is connected to the left side of BB1 by 12 gauge wire.

The connections I drew on either side of the elements of BB1 and BB2 are in junction boxes at either end of the heater.

What I wasn't sure I could do was just add a new wire through the case from one side of the BB1 to the other. From a code, or safety perspective.
 
  #9  
Old 12-10-12, 08:11 AM
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I did originally mention the high temp. wire requirement.

But the info. was removed when my post was modified......

Regarding the location of the thermostat.....you didn't specify in your first post.

The issue is the wire that feeds it.....regardless of where it is.

You have now confirmed it is 12 gauge.....which is what would be required.
 

Last edited by Nashkat1; 12-10-12 at 03:57 PM. Reason: Remove formatting
  #10  
Old 12-10-12, 09:17 AM
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Okay, somehow I wasn't notified of these responses
Notification isn't automatic. It is hidden under thread tools at the top of this page.
 
  #11  
Old 12-10-12, 04:08 PM
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I am curious as to why you say the thermostat must be on the unit? In this case the thermostat is on the wall on the opposite side of the room. The wall thermostat is 400 watts rated and is connected to the left side of BB1 by 12 gauge wire.

The connections I drew on either side of the elements of BB1 and BB2 are in junction boxes at either end of the heater.

What I wasn't sure I could do was just add a new wire through the case from one side of the BB1 to the other. From a code, or safety perspective.
I think some of us were confused by your original drawing. I know I was. And yes, Halton did mention the high temp wire requirement for the jumper in his first reply.

Looking back over this now, if you follow the diagram Halton included in post #6, use high temp wire for the jumper inside BB1, as both Halton and Braether3 suggested, and splice everything, including the 12 gauge wire looping to the thermostat, inside either wall boxes or the boxes made into the heaters, it should work.
 
  #12  
Old 12-11-12, 11:15 AM
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Thanks very much to everyone. Just trying to find the high temp wire now!
 
  #13  
Old 12-12-12, 01:33 AM
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Try an appliance parts store. That wire is used in wall ovens and ranges.
 
  #14  
Old 12-12-12, 07:24 AM
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I think my local HD has it on the wire-cutting carousel.
 
  #15  
Old 11-21-13, 06:07 AM
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Conclusion

Not meaning to resurrect an old thread... but I realized the other day that I had not updated this with my results...

I followed the suggestions put forward in the diagram by Halton, pretty much to the letter. The most difficulty in this operation came from the following:
  • Finding high temp wire. Ended up using a wire supplier I found online on ebay from California. HD did not stock it nor did the local electrical suppliers, unless I wanted a whole spool.
  • Finding a high enough rated programmable thermostat. Found this one at a local electrical supply shop, was not stocked at HD.
  • Snaking the new wire through the chase: I undid the existing wire in the bb heater's chase and used it to pull a fish wire through, then I attached the original plus the new high temp wire to the fish wire and pulled them both through.
Works wonderfully on the single thermostat. The old (unused) thermostat wires were clipped back at both ends and the wall box drywalled over.
 
  #16  
Old 11-21-13, 06:21 AM
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Good to hear. Thanks for stopping back and leaving us the update.
 
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