4 Wire Split to 2 circuits 110v

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  #1  
Old 01-11-13, 05:32 PM
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4 Wire Split to 2 circuits 110v

My 3rd floor was pre-wired with one romex cable with black, red, white and ground wire. Black and Red wire are attached to seperate 15 amp breakers on the right side of the panel, adjacent to each other. I want to split them in to two seperate circuits. Red to a living room, black to a bed room. How do I handle this? Can I use attach the black wire to a plug and wire the bed room circuit from it and run the red wire directly to the living room circuit. How do I handle the 3 neutral wires?
 
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Old 01-11-13, 05:47 PM
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Welcome to the forums!

That's a 4-wire, 3-conductor cable, and it's carrying 120V on the black and the red.

I want to split them in to two seperate circuits. Red to a living room, black to a bed room. How do I handle this?
It is two separate circuits. Use 14-2/G cable (black and white wires, plus ground) to extend them. In a rated box that's large enough to hold everything, splice all of the grounds together and bond those to the box, it it's metal. Splice all three neutrals together. Splice the black from one of the 2-conductor cables to the black from the panel, and splice the black from the other 2-conductor cable to the red from the panel.

In the panel, is there one 2-pole 15A breaker protecting the 4-wire cable, or are there two single-pole breakers with their handles joined with a handle tie?
 
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Old 01-11-13, 05:49 PM
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You can't split to 110 volts because your house is 120 volts neutral to hot.

Red to a living room, black to a bed room. How do I handle this? Can I use attach the black wire to a plug and wire the bed room circuit from it and run the red wire directly to the living room circuit.
At the first receptacle you would have the 3-conductor cable from the panel and a 2-conductor cable to the next room.

Black of 3-conductor cable to the receptacle.
Red of the 3-conductor connected to the black of the 2-conductor.
All neutral to a pigtail. Pigtail to the receptacle.
All grounds to a pigtail(s). Pigtail(s) to receptacle and if metal box to the box.

Note the breakers must be handle tied (or a 2pole breaker) and on opposite legs of the 240v.

Echo
 
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Old 01-11-13, 07:15 PM
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There are two single pole breakers.
 
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Old 01-11-13, 07:28 PM
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Diagram Attached

I drew a diagram of how to do this. Is this going to work?
 
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Old 01-11-13, 07:36 PM
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The whites all need to be spliced together with pigtails to the receptacles.
 
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Old 01-11-13, 07:45 PM
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All White Wires in the wire nut? Or just the power in and bypass circuit

In my diagram I planned to wire nut the white attached to the box, the circuit going to the next room and a pig which will attach to the receptical. The black and white wire going to this room would attach to the receptical also.
Is this correct?
 
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Old 01-11-13, 08:09 PM
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The white does not connect to the box.

Your diagram will work.
 
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Old 01-11-13, 08:22 PM
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Thanks

Thankyou so much for your review and comment. I had seen something like the diagram I drew, but wasn't sure I remembered it correctly.

I will give it a try on Saturday.
 
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Old 01-11-13, 08:28 PM
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The grounds will also need to be connected together and to the devices, and the box if metal.
 
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Old 01-11-13, 08:40 PM
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In my diagram I planned to wire nut the white attached to the box, the circuit going to the next room and a pig which will attach to the receptical. The black and white wire going to this room would attach to the receptical also.
Is this correct?
No. You should have one splice with all three incoming ground wires plus one or two pigtails - one for the receptacle and one for the box, if it's a metal box.

You should have a second splice with the three incoming white wires plus one pigtail for the receptacle.

You should also have a third splice, with the incoming black wire, the black wire going to the living room and a pigtail for the receptacle in it.

Finally, you should have a fourth splice connecting the red wire to the black wire going to the bedroom.

I hope you have a nice deep box to hold all of this.

There are two single pole breakers.
Perfect. Are their handles joined together with a handle tie?
 
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Old 01-12-13, 06:53 AM
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See revised diagram.

All ground wires will be spliced together with a pig attached to the receptical in this box.

The ground is what I am still struggling with.
In my diagram I had intended to attach the power source white to the white going to the bed room circuit (The hot red to the black for the bed room) with a pig attached to the receptical. The white wire for the living room was going to be attached to the other receptical screw thereby connecting them.

If I connect all three white wires in this plug box will all of the other plugs and lights on the living room circuit have the nuetral?

The hot black wire would also attach to the receptical, with the black for the living room fed off the receptical.
 
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Old 01-12-13, 07:14 AM
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If I connect all three white wires in this plug box will all of the other plugs and lights on the living room circuit have the nuetral?
Yes. I'm not sure I understand why you are uncertain of this. Can you clarify what/why you or asking just to be sure we understand your question. Your diagram is correct and shows all neutrals connected so I am unsure why you are asking?
 
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Old 01-12-13, 07:20 AM
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White connection to the box refers to the connection to the neutral bar on my breaker panel?
 
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Old 01-12-13, 07:24 AM
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I am torn betweed the first and second diagram methods. The latest connects all neutral wires with a wire nut and connects to the first plug via a pig.

The first connects two nuetral wires with a pig to the plug, but then the neutral for the other circuit is connected to the plug.
 
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Old 01-12-13, 08:05 AM
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See revised diagram.
Very nice, very clear.

All ground wires will be spliced together with a pig attached to the receptical in this box.
Yes. And, if the box is metal you will need a second ground pigtail to attach to it.

The ground is what I am still struggling with.
You just described what you do with the grounds. Did you mean to say "The neutral is what I am still struggling with."?

In my diagram I had intended to attach the power source white to the white going to the bed room circuit (The hot red to the black for the bed room) with a pig attached to the receptical. The white wire for the living room was going to be attached to the other receptical screw thereby connecting them.
As was just noted in a different thread, you cannot rely on the bridge on the receptacle to make the neutral connection, especially in a multiwire branch circuit. That's why we've kept pointing you toward splicing all three neutrals together and adding a pigtail for the receptacle in this box.

You've got it right in your revised diagram. This pigtail should, of course, be made with a piece of white wire.

If I connect all three white wires in this plug box will all of the other plugs and lights on the living room circuit have the nuetral?
Yes, and more reliably so. See above, plus what Ray said.

The hot black wire would also attach to the receptical, with the black for the living room fed off the receptical.
Best practice would be to splice the black from the panel to the black for the living room and add a pigtail for the receptacle in this box. Again, this would prevent relying on the bridge on the receptacle to make the connection.

White connection to the box refers to the connection to the neutral bar on my breaker panel?
Not sure why you're asking this. As pcboss said earlier,
Originally Posted by pcboss
The white does not connect to the box.
Is there something we can help clarify for you here? It looks like you've got it pretty well figured out.

There is one important question we haven't seen your answer to yet: Do the two single-pole 15A circuit breakers have their handles joined by a handle tie, or will they?
 
  #17  
Old 01-12-13, 08:06 AM
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We crossed posts. See post #16 for why you need to go with the full splice.
 
  #18  
Old 01-12-13, 11:07 AM
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Thanks everyone.

SUCCESS!

Yes I did mean the neutral (white) wires when I was still not sure.

I have completed the wiring and it works as expected. Using a multi-meter all plugs and lights register about 118 volts +/- .3. This is also what I get at the breaker.
 
  #19  
Old 01-12-13, 11:22 AM
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Sounds good. Thanks for letting us know how it worked out.
 
  #20  
Old 01-12-13, 02:27 PM
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See, we knew you could do it! Congratulations.

One more thing (yeah, you guessed it): What about the handle tie between the breaker handles?
 
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Old 01-12-13, 05:34 PM
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Wasn't sure how that was done. Was going to make a trip to HD to obtain one.
 
  #22  
Old 01-12-13, 05:40 PM
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Did you look at the link I put in the two earlier posts? Handle ties vary by breaker type. Note the manufacturer and breaker type before you go shopping.
 
  #23  
Old 01-12-13, 07:21 PM
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The breakers will need to be removed and separated slightly to install the handle tie. Squeeze back together and connect to bus bars.
 
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