Kitchen Remodel Electrical ??

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Old 02-24-13, 10:55 AM
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Kitchen Remodel Electrical ??

I am remodeling my kitchen (Cabinets, Flooring, Counter Top and Backsplash) and have some questions regarding electrical. The house was built in 2001 and is in NJ....

About 6 mo ago I added a garbage disposal and tied it in to a dedicated 20A dishwasher circuit (new receptacle under sink base for both DW and Garbage Disposal), is that up to code?

I plan on adding hardwired under cabinet LED lighting but am aware that I can not tap into the backsplash small appliance receptacles. I plan on tapping in to a receptacle on a wall opposite the cabinets in the dining room, will that be in compliance with code?

The original kitchen is wired with the refrigerator on the same circuit as the kitchen backsplash receptacles and the OTR microwave (which does not vent to outside, vent is on the front) is on the same circuit as some of the lighting in the basement. I think the refrigerator is OK (as far as code) but from what I read online, the microwave should have its own circuit. If some of that is not up to code, do I have to fix it since I am remodeling, or can I just leave it? (in 7 years at this house, I have never had lights flicker or a breaker trip).
 
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Old 02-24-13, 01:23 PM
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About 6 mo ago I added a garbage disposal and tied it in to a dedicated 20A dishwasher circuit (new receptacle under sink base for both DW and Garbage Disposal), is that up to code?


Depends on your local codes some allow it and some do not. There is little chance that the dishwasher and disposal will overload the circuit but since you are ripping everything apart might as well pull another circuit for the disposal. I usually use a mwbc and put them on their own circuit.

I plan on adding hardwired under cabinet LED lighting but am aware that I can not tap into the backsplash small appliance receptacles. I plan on tapping in to a receptacle on a wall opposite the cabinets in the dining room, will that be in compliance with code?

No the dining room receptacles cannot serve the lighting in the kitchen.


The original kitchen is wired with the refrigerator on the same circuit as the kitchen backsplash receptacles and the OTR microwave (which does not vent to outside, vent is on the front) is on the same circuit as some of the lighting in the basement. I think the refrigerator is OK (as far as code) but from what I read online, the microwave should have its own circuit. If some of that is not up to code, do I have to fix it since I am remodeling, or can I just leave it? (in 7 years at this house, I have never had lights flicker or a breaker trip).

The refrigerator can be on the small appliance circuit but it is best practice to put it on it's own circuit. Also the microwave should get it's own circuit. The kitchen lighting can share a circuit with other lighting circuits in the house.
 
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Old 02-24-13, 06:09 PM
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why cant I tap into the dining room for some LED's in the kitchen, that is ridiculous...

Dishwasher and disposal have been fine for the past 6mo, so if its not against code, ill leave that...

Same with the fridge on the kitchen small appliance circuit...no issues in 7 years, im guessing there won't be any, so im not changing it for the sake of changing it...

With the microwave, you said it "should" get its own circuit...but does it have to to be in compliance? If not, im leaving it, again its been 7 years with no issues and id rather just leave it...

I should just do the whole renovation without permits...and keep the govt the F%$ck out of my house...
 
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Old 02-24-13, 09:21 PM
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Originally Posted by jmat1980 View Post
why cant I tap into the dining room for some LED's in the kitchen, that is ridiculous...
For the same reason you can't have them on the countertop circuits. They are SABC (Small Appliance Branch Circuits) and they are not allowed to serve lighting. You can tie them to the kitchen lighting circuit with no problems.

Dishwasher and disposal have been fine for the past 6mo, so if its not against code, ill leave that...

Same with the fridge on the kitchen small appliance circuit...no issues in 7 years, im guessing there won't be any, so im not changing it for the sake of changing it...
The SABC requirement is to ensure that there is enough available current capacity to run multiple countertop appliances. It is not uncommon to have for example a toaster, waffle iron and coffee pot running at the same time. Those three could easily max out the two required 20A SABC's by themselves. Honestly my preference is to put the refrigerator on the lighting circuit. It gives an obvious indication if the breaker trips, and it is allowed by code.

With the microwave, you said it "should" get its own circuit...but does it have to to be in compliance? If not, im leaving it, again its been 7 years with no issues and id rather just leave it...
It actually depends on the manufacturer's installation instructions. Some micro-hoods and a lot of stand-alone hoods do specify a dedicated circuit. Manufacturer's requirements trump all codes. If you are remodeling, it is a very good idea to just put it on its own circuit.

I should just do the whole renovation without permits...and keep the govt the F%$ck out of my house...
That will probably bite you in the ass somewhere down the road.. Whether it is when you try to sell and a prospective buyer's home inspector finds reason to flag your work, or deity forbid there is a fire that is traced to uninspected DIY work, your insurance will not pay out, and if anyone were to get hurt/killed you would be on the hook for it. It's a bad idea.
 
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Old 02-24-13, 09:59 PM
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my preference is to put the refrigerator on the lighting circuit
That also is not allowed in the kitchen. The exception for refrigerators says you can feed it from an individual branch circuit of 15A, not a general lighting circuit.
 
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Old 02-24-13, 10:34 PM
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Thanks for all the reply's so far...

I know what people are saying is best (ie, refrigerator, dishwasher, microwave, etc... on their own circuit) but im trying to do this reno with the least amount of electrical work possible and still keep it to code...

I am going to pull the permits, but id rather not hire an electrician. Since im doing it myself, and the kitchen has served me with not one tripped breaker or flickering light for 7 years id just as soon leave it how it is (im not changing any layouts, moving any lighting or adding any new appliances). If something was not done to code before I purchased (IE; microwave on basement lighting circuit) I assume I have to fix it...

Many of the codes seem way overkill to me, but again, im not an electrician. So...like I said, since things have served me well, im just looking to find out what I need to fix to be in compliance, not because its better to do it one way or another.

From my research:
2 circuits for the backsplash, 20A each, GFI protected, and spaced properly(no lighting or permanent appliances attached)

Double Wall Ovens on separate circuit

Electric Cook Top on Separate Circuit

Refrigerator can be on one of the 20A backsplash circuits

Separate circuit for dishwasher, garbage disposal may be connected to this circuit

Microwave should be on its own circuit (just checked the manual and it says it should be)

Kitchen Island receptacle can be connected to one of the 20A GFI backsplash circuit

Looks like ill be running one new line for the microwave. Did I miss anything else important??

Last question...
If my kitchen lighting circuit is not readily available in the walls behind the cabinets (aka the only ones im messing with) can I run under cabinet lights to other receptacles in the kitchen (other than the 2 backsplash circuits). If not, can I tap a receptacle in a hallway opposite the refrigerator (since im told I cant use the dining room circuit)

One more...are there any codes regarding a vent? I have an electric range with a microwave over it. The microwave does not vent to outside, it just recirculates through a filter...I assume that is fine, but just want to double check...

Thanks in advance...
 
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Old 02-24-13, 11:38 PM
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My bad, I misread Exception 2 before I opened my yap. I know a lot of old timers did that and it is a perfectly reasonable idea.. When did that change, if anyone knows?
 
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Old 02-24-13, 11:56 PM
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I don't think venting is actually required by code for the kitchen, but as someone who also owned a recirculating micro-hood (until I got tired of scrubbing grease that the filters didn't catch off the cabinets and ceiling), if you are renovating, you would be much better off running a vent if it is possible.

Kitchen lighting can be on any general purpose circuit. The dishwasher/disposal circuit would be fine, because it is not a SABC or required/mandated IBC. The hallway outlet would also be fine.

I would run a separate SABC for the island, just to cover future needs you may have not considered. Also, remember countertop receptacles can be no more than 4' apart (there can not be more than 2' of contiguous countertop in any direction from any receptacle. That goes for the island as well if it contains a sink/cooktop.. Even if it doesn't have a divide, I would still install one at each end if it is more than 4' long just for convenience.
 
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Old 02-26-13, 04:55 PM
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If my kitchen lighting circuit is not readily available in the walls behind the cabinets (aka the only ones im messing with) can I run under cabinet lights to other receptacles in the kitchen (other than the 2 backsplash circuits). If not, can I tap a receptacle in a hallway opposite the refrigerator (since im told I cant use the dining room circuit)
How are you planning to control your new hardwired under cabinet LED lighting? It seems to me that adding a switch for that lighting next to the existing kitchen light switch would be the natural starting point for those lights.

Regarding the receptacles in the dining room: You can't add lighting to either of the two 20A SABCs that are required in the dining room. If you have a third, general purpose receptacle circuit there, you can add lighting to that.

Yes, you can add to a general purpose receptacle circuit in the hallway.

are there any codes regarding a vent? I have an electric range with a microwave over it. The microwave does not vent to outside, it just recirculates through a filter...I assume that is fine, but just want to double check.
It is my understanding that some jurisdictions require an outside vent over a gas cooking surface, but not over an electric one. You will need to ask.

This brings up an important point. All codes is local. We can advise you on best practices, and on the requirements of the NEC and other model codes. While best practices are best practices, the code that controls the work you're doing is the one adopted by your local jurisdiction. To get the very best advice on what is and isn't allowed, and the best way to do the work, draw out and specify everything as you envision it and take that plan with you when you go to get your permit.

You may also have to pass a test to get a permit to do your own work. I did once, many years ago.

Double Wall Ovens on separate circuit
Are the two ovens in a single unit fed by a single circuit?

Refrigerator can be on one of the 20A backsplash circuits
Preferably fed in front of the GFCI at the beginning of that small appliance branch (not backsplash) circuit, or from the LINE terminals on the GFCI receptacle.

Kitchen Island receptacle can be connected to one of the 20A GFI backsplash circuit
Possibly, but the two requires SABCs are a minimum requirement. Adding a thired SABC for the island would be a wise investment.

im trying to do this reno with the least amount of electrical work possible and still keep it to code
Why? As opposed to the way that is safest, or that will best serve your needs in the long run?

I should just do the whole renovation without permits...and keep the govt the F%$ck out of my house...
We are the government - you and I and all of our neighbors. We have written and adopted the codes and created the permitting and inspection processes. For our safety. For all of us.

Enjoy your renovated kitchen, and the journey to completing it!
 
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