GFCI Outlet in Bathroom
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GFCI Outlet in Bathroom
[HR][/HR]Hello all! This is my first post here so here it goes.
I am doing some renovation in the bathroom - new drywall, tiling, fixtures, etc.
The bathroom is very old and has 1 lightswitch that is on the same circuit as the bedroom (says 15 on the panel, assuming 15 amps).
Also has 1 outlet that was not GFCI but I am thinking I should install a GFCI for code/protection, since it is right above the sink. I included a few pictures of the outlet in question here:
Outlet - Imgur
I have changed all of the regular wall outlets in the home that had either 3 or 5 wires, but the ground always seemed to be the copper wire, but in this outlet there is the extra white wire attached to the bottom of the outlet, is that the ground, or something else?
The number on the panel says 20, once again, i'm assuming that means 20 amps. It seems to be on the same circuit as the bathroom adjacent to it and one of the living room outlets downstairs.
I have been doing a lot of research on the forums and it seems like a GFCI is necessary, and a 15 amp GFCI would be okay with a 20 amp circuit. But I just want some of your opinions on what I should do (short of rewiring anything).
Thanks in advance for everything!
[HR][/HR]Hello all! This is my first post here so here it goes.
I am doing some renovation in the bathroom - new drywall, tiling, fixtures, etc.
The bathroom is very old and has 1 lightswitch that is on the same circuit as the bedroom (says 15 on the panel, assuming 15 amps).
Also has 1 outlet that was not GFCI but I am thinking I should install a GFCI for code/protection, since it is right above the sink. I included a few pictures of the outlet in question here:
Outlet - Imgur
I have changed all of the regular wall outlets in the home that had either 3 or 5 wires, but the ground always seemed to be the copper wire, but in this outlet there is the extra white wire attached to the bottom of the outlet, is that the ground, or something else?
The number on the panel says 20, once again, i'm assuming that means 20 amps. It seems to be on the same circuit as the bathroom adjacent to it and one of the living room outlets downstairs.
I have been doing a lot of research on the forums and it seems like a GFCI is necessary, and a 15 amp GFCI would be okay with a 20 amp circuit. But I just want some of your opinions on what I should do (short of rewiring anything).
Thanks in advance for everything!
#2
The white wire appears to be a bootleg ground and is dangerous and should be removed. Does it connect to the green screw?
A 15 amp GFI duplex is fine on a 20 amp circuit.
The downstairs receptacle should not be on the bathroom receptacle circuit. The 20 amp receptacle circuit can be shared between bathrooms if it only serves receptacles in the bathrooms.
A
A 15 amp GFI duplex is fine on a 20 amp circuit.
The downstairs receptacle should not be on the bathroom receptacle circuit. The 20 amp receptacle circuit can be shared between bathrooms if it only serves receptacles in the bathrooms.
A
#3
The bathroom is very old and has 1 lightswitch that is on the same circuit as the bedroom (says 15 on the panel, assuming 15 amps).
but in this outlet there is the extra white wire attached to the bottom of the outlet, is that the ground, or something else?
and a 15 amp GFCI would be okay with a 20 amp circuit.
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Ok so I guess what I would need to do is have an electrician come in and run new circuits for the 3 outlets that are currently on that circuit?
Just switching the current outlet with a 15 amp GFCI would not suffice?
Just switching the current outlet with a 15 amp GFCI would not suffice?
#5
The bathroom renovation is going to trigger the need to bring things up to code. A new 20 amp circuit should be run.
#6
Just switching the current outlet with a 15 amp GFCI would not suffice?
#7
Guys, the white wire goes to a ground clip on the box. Regardless, the cable needs to be abandoned and replaced unless it's 12AWG on a 20A circuit serving only the bathroom.
#10
Welcome to the forums!
If, when you say "the number on the panel," you're referring to the number imprinted into the handle of the circuit breaker protecting this circuit, then yes, this is a circuit protected at 20 amperes.
The receptacle in your picture is obviously at the end of the circuit. If the cable comes to it from the receptacle in the adjacent bathroom, you should be able to install the GFCI receptacle in that bathroom, terminate the wires in the cable coming to this bathroom to the LOAD terminals on the GFCI and the power-in wires to the LINE terminals, and install a standard duplex receptacle in this bathroom. Both receptacles will then be GFCI protected. A 15A GFCI receptacle is rated for 20A pass-through and can be used there.
Can you install a new breaker in your panel and run a new cable from there to a point where you can interrupt the cable leaving the receptacle in the living room to come to the adjacent bathroom? If so, you can but the bathroom receptacles on their own 20A circuit. If not, post back to show us your situation and we'll advise you from there.
Remember, as Justin said, that all of the wiring you add must be #12 AWG on a 20A circuit. In your jurisdiction, the cabling must probably be Type MC, AC or BX - metal clad, not plastic clad - but you can check with your local authorities. We've heard that NY has recently begun allowing Type NM in some residential applications.
If you use Type NM, you will need to bond the ground wire at both ends. If you use Type MC, you will need to insert an anti-short bushing in the cut end of the jacket and wrap the bonding wire back over that to spiral up the outside of the jacket and create a low-resistance path to ground.
The ground clip that the white wire goes to now is an acceptable means of bonding the receptacle to ground, but the wire should be either bare or green-insulated copper, not white-insulated wire.
The number on the panel says 20, once again, i'm assuming that means 20 amps.
It seems to be on the same circuit as the bathroom adjacent to it and one of the living room outlets downstairs.
Can you install a new breaker in your panel and run a new cable from there to a point where you can interrupt the cable leaving the receptacle in the living room to come to the adjacent bathroom? If so, you can but the bathroom receptacles on their own 20A circuit. If not, post back to show us your situation and we'll advise you from there.
Remember, as Justin said, that all of the wiring you add must be #12 AWG on a 20A circuit. In your jurisdiction, the cabling must probably be Type MC, AC or BX - metal clad, not plastic clad - but you can check with your local authorities. We've heard that NY has recently begun allowing Type NM in some residential applications.
If you use Type NM, you will need to bond the ground wire at both ends. If you use Type MC, you will need to insert an anti-short bushing in the cut end of the jacket and wrap the bonding wire back over that to spiral up the outside of the jacket and create a low-resistance path to ground.
The ground clip that the white wire goes to now is an acceptable means of bonding the receptacle to ground, but the wire should be either bare or green-insulated copper, not white-insulated wire.
#12
Nash O/P is in Long Island New York
Originally Posted by Nashkat1
check with your local authorities
Oops. Ray
Last edited by ray2047; 02-27-13 at 04:38 PM. Reason: Add oops.
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Hi Nashkat thank you!
I am going to just try to re-state what you said to see if I have it right.
So the bathrooms need to be on their own circuit, even if I put them both on the same circuit, but the living room cannot be on it.
So assuming it goes living room-adjacent bathroom-renovation bathroom, I can install GFCI receptacles in the 2 bathrooms. But I would need to run a new circuit for the living room?
I'm sorry if this is not at all what you meant. Thank you!
I am going to just try to re-state what you said to see if I have it right.
So the bathrooms need to be on their own circuit, even if I put them both on the same circuit, but the living room cannot be on it.
So assuming it goes living room-adjacent bathroom-renovation bathroom, I can install GFCI receptacles in the 2 bathrooms. But I would need to run a new circuit for the living room?
I'm sorry if this is not at all what you meant. Thank you!
#14
So the bathrooms need to be on their own circuit, even if I put them both on the same circuit,
But I would need to run a new circuit for the living room?
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Ah, I see. Yes, the 3 outlets (both bathrooms and living room) are the only things on the circuit, no lights. So either I run a new circuit for the living room, or a new circuit for the bathrooms. I guess it would be rather difficult to run a new circuit from the panel to the outlets in question because they are on the opposite sides of the house, which would be a problem.
Edit: This may not be true, but I'm going to assume they put the living room outlet on that 20 amp circuit because there used to be a room air conditioner plugged into it?
Edit: This may not be true, but I'm going to assume they put the living room outlet on that 20 amp circuit because there used to be a room air conditioner plugged into it?
#16
Is the cable for the living room #12. That would not be common for a living room. If your right about them changing the original breaker to 20 amps for an AC that may have been done without changing out the wiring. if so that breaker needs to be changed to 15 amps ASAP.
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This is the living room outlet, sorry the quality isnt the greatest, but hopefully you can see what it is:
Living Room Outlet - Imgur
It doesn't even seem to be grounded.
i
Living Room Outlet - Imgur
It doesn't even seem to be grounded.
i
#19
I can install GFCI receptacles in the 2 bathrooms.
You can leave the bathroom lights on the living room circuit if they are on it already.
This is the living room outlet, sorry the quality isnt the greatest, but hopefully you can see what it is:
Living Room Outlet - Imgur
It doesn't even seem to be grounded.
Living Room Outlet - Imgur
It doesn't even seem to be grounded.
The ground is provided by the metal conduit, or jacket. See post #10.
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Vinny, you need to provide - install - GFCI protection for the receptacles in the two bathrooms. You can do that by installing one new GFCI receptacle in the bathroom that is closer to the panel, as the wiring runs, and using that to protect an ordinary receptacle in the other bathroom.
The LR lighting circuit? The bathroom lights are on a 15A circuit - not the same as the LR receptacle in question.
Unfortunately I do not have a pair of wire strippers - I included some better pictures of the living room outlet here, but I don't know if you can tell from just a picture.
Living Room Outlet 2 - Imgur
#21
Unfortunately I do not have a pair of wire strippers
*Insulation on older wire is thicker then new wire so you can't compare by looking at the insulated wire.
#22
Insulation on older wire is thicker then new wire so you can't compare by looking at the insulated wire.
Originally Posted by Nashkat1
No way to make a guess at the wire size.
Originally Posted by Nashkat1
If you don't know what size it is, use a pair of wire strippers to slice through the very end of the insulation on one of the (power off) conductors. See which size hole gets you cleanly through to the wire but doesn't cut into the wire.
#23
This is DIY project if you want to do it. We can walk you through it. Probably no electrician needed.
#27
You are on Long Island, I wouldn't even guess whether they issue homeowner permits or not.
#29
And that's a no-no on the forum. Becky or Tom will send their hit men looking for you.
As opposed to those I know from seeing their stickers on panels I wouldn't let my worst enemy's dog go near. So far the "recommend" list is empty.
Last edited by ray2047; 03-01-13 at 03:13 PM. Reason: Correct my spelling in quote.