Adding an outlet from existing outlet to add slack

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  #1  
Old 03-02-13, 08:18 PM
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Adding an outlet from existing outlet to add slack

I recently put in a small door to create a little space for closet space. However there is a wire going across for an electrical outlet blocking the entry way. (not enough slack) The outlet is half hot and the bottom turns on by switch. Is it possible to add slack or even add another electrical outlet in the process with that kind of circuit without having to re-wire a whole new wire to the circuit breaker?

Thanks,
Mark
 
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  #2  
Old 03-02-13, 08:46 PM
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Welcome to the forums !

You need to extend the wire at that location. You can just cut that wire and route it to two junction boxes. Then you would have to add a piece of probably 3 wire between the boxes so that the new wire is routed away from your opening.

You may be able to just add one junction box and go directly to the existing receptacle.

In this case a few pics of what you have there would be helpful.

http://www.doityourself.com/forum/el...-pictures.html
 
  #3  
Old 03-02-13, 08:48 PM
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You would just add a new box on one side of the new doorway. You would then run a new longer cable from that box to the one on the other side of the dooorway.

The above assumes the circuit is grounded.
 
  #4  
Old 03-02-13, 09:31 PM
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You need to know how the wiring is run now. If you kill the power and open up the receptacle that you need to re-feed and find that it's at the end of, say, a single 12-3/G cable (and that's the cable that you need to re-work because of the new door) then you're in good shape.

Yes, in that case you could pull the existing cable back to feed into a newly installed old-work box, add a receptacle there, and run a new piece of cable from that box to the existing box.

You can make both, either or neither of the two receptacles fully switched, half switched or unswitched.

If you find that it's wired some other way, let us know what you're seeing and we can advise you from there.

PCboss types faster than I do.
 
  #5  
Old 03-03-13, 07:23 AM
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Thanks guys for the advice. The receptacle I need to add slack to is an end. I think I would like to either:

A. Pull the wire back and add a new receptacle (could use one anyway) then add new cable to the existing one like Nashkat suggested.

B. Add a light fixture and light switch for the closet then wire to receptacle.

Is B possible since I already have a receptacle that is switched but I would like to make all the receptacles unswitched?

Mark
 
  #6  
Old 03-03-13, 08:43 AM
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B should be possible if the size of the closet allows a code compliant light and the light is of a type code compliant with the requirements for a closet light.
 
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Old 03-03-13, 09:11 AM
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Mark, if both of the conditions that Ray noted can be met, you can add the switch and the light for the closet and also have any of the four receptacles be switch controlled. Or, if you really want to have them all be always hot, you can repurpose your existing switch to control a ceiling light or fan, if you don't have that now.

Just as a thought, you could make the new switch for the closet light a door jamb switch.
 
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Old 03-03-13, 10:27 AM
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Your local code may require either a switched receptacle or a switched light. If you don't have light in the room you may have to leave one half of one receptacle switched.
 
  #9  
Old 03-03-13, 10:41 AM
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I do have a light and ceiling fan operated by switch already. Is it easier to leave a receptacle operated by switch or change them all to be hot? I think I want at least the new outlet to be both hot since it is by the bed and need to plug in alarm clock, chargers etc. Are there any diagrams anywhere that I could take a look at?

Next question, how can I find out what is code complaint?

Thanks all for your time. A big help.

Mark
 
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Old 03-03-13, 11:56 AM
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Are there any diagrams anywhere that I could take a look at?
Probably but there are so many ways they may not apply in your case. You need to determine if poer comes in at the switch or one of the receptacles. If you have a group of whites connected only to each other at the switch box then poer probably comes in at the switch. If you have only a black and white wire connected to the switch then power probably comes in at the receptacle. You can verify with a multimeter, preferably analog, or a test light but not a non contact tester.

2008 NEC:
410.16 Luminaires in Clothes Closets.
(A) Luminaire Types Permitted. Listed luminaires of the
following types shall be permitted to be installed in a
closet:
(1) A surface-mounted or recessed incandescent luminaire
with a completely enclosed lamp
(2) A surface-mounted or recessed fluorescent luminaire
(3) Surface-mounted fluorescent or LED luminaires identified
as suitable for installation within the storage area
(B) Luminaire Types Not Permitted. Incandescent luminaires
with open or partially enclosed lamps and pendant
luminaires or lampholders shall not be permitted.
(C) Location. The minimum clearance between luminaires
installed in clothes closets and the nearest point of a storage
space shall be as follows:
(1) 300 mm (12 in.) for surface-mounted incandescent or
LED luminaires with a completely enclosed light
source installed on the wall above the door or on the
ceiling
(2) 150 mm (6 in.) for surface-mounted fluorescent luminaires
installed on the wall above the door or on the
ceiling
(3) 150 mm (6 in.) for recessed incandescent or LED luminaires
with a completely enclosed light source installed
in the wall or the ceiling
(4) 150 mm (6 in.) for recessed fluorescent luminaires installed
in the wall or the ceiling
(5) Surface-mounted fluorescent or LED luminaires shall
be permitted to be installed within the storage space
where identified for this use.
 
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Old 03-03-13, 02:27 PM
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I do have a light and ceiling fan operated by switch already.
Then you don't have to keep any of the receptacles switched. You probably also have power coming in at the switch.

Are there any diagrams anywhere that I could take a look at?
Sure, or we could draw some for you. Which one would you like?

Seriously, we shouldn't need one.

If the existing receptacle is at the end of the line and you have a 2-gang switch box with the switch for the overhead light and the switch for the receptacles in it, You should have the power coming to the switch box. From there, for the receptacles. you should have a 3-conductor (black, red and white) cable going to the receptacles. The black wire is probably the always-hot wire and the red wire is carrying the switched power.

Please verify this, or tell us what you do see. You will also need to buy two new receptacles, one single gang old-work box for the new receptacle and a second one for the new switch, if you want a wall switch. Get enough 2-conductor cable to reach everything. You need 14-2/G cable for a 15A circuit and 12-2/G for a 20A circuit. Wire strippers, lineman's pliers, a screwdriver and a small handful of wire nuts, and you should be ready to go.

Will you be able to install a light that meets the requirements that Ray posted?
 
  #12  
Old 03-09-13, 08:55 AM
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The existing receptacle is at the end of the line, and have a 3 conductor cable going to the end receptacle. I think I am going to use a battery operated light instead. So how will the hookup be if the first receptacle is half switched, want the new (2nd) receptacle to be all hot then leave the end (3rd) half switched like it is? Or is it easier just to have the last 2 receptacle be all hot?

Thanks
 
  #13  
Old 03-09-13, 12:39 PM
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In looking at the diagram below.
All receptacles are shown wired as split.
If all were split the 3 common bridges would have been removed but in your case the common bridge would be removed only on the first and last receptacle.

I'm showing red as switched and black as hot. It could be the other way around. You'll need to confirm with a meter or probe.

The center receptacle would be your new one. You would bring both three wire cables into the new box.
You would connect bare to bare and leave a tail out to the receptacle.
You would connect white to white.......and leave a white tail out for your new receptacle.
You would connect black to black and leave a black tail out to your new receptacle.
You would connect red to red with no tail.
(reverse the colors (red/black) depending on which wire is the hot one)
 
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Old 03-09-13, 01:41 PM
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well now I think the wife doesn't want the first receptacle to be operated by switch. Only the last one. Does that mean I just need to buy a new receptacle for the first one and keep the bridge intact to keep it hot all the time as well as the second one? I would just leave the last one the way it is to keep half switched?
 
  #15  
Old 03-09-13, 02:08 PM
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That is correct. You would need two new receptacles and connect them to only the red or the black depending what it checks out as.

That's the beauty of a 3 wire between boxes..... you can do anything..... any combo.
 
  #16  
Old 03-09-13, 11:10 PM
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Thanks so much. The project was a success. I didn't think it would be THAT easy. I learned a lot in the proccess. Thanks again.
 
  #17  
Old 03-10-13, 07:10 AM
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Glad it was a success. Thanks for letting us know.
 
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