Adding A Sub Panel For BBQ Island & Ramada

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Old 03-07-13, 01:52 PM
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Adding A Sub Panel For BBQ Island & Ramada

I am building a remada with a built in BBQ and need some info on the gauge of wire to use running a new sub panel in the island. I will be running conduit from the main panel about 150' to the sub panel location. The ramada & island will have:

3 outlets - 1 for a mini fridge & two for countertop use - rotisserie, radio, etc.
1 ceiling fan w/ lights controlled by a dual slider fan switch
3 can lights on a switch above the grill area - 3" halogen cans
2 coach lights on a switch on the pillars of the ramada

I was panning to have the fridge and the 2 other outlets on 1 breaker & the lighting and fan on the other breaker.

What size breaker do I need at the main panel?
What size wire should I run between the main & sub panel?
What size breakers in the sub panel?
What size wire from the sub panel to the outlets & lighting?
Any other tips would be appreciated.

Thanks,
Joe
 
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Old 03-07-13, 02:01 PM
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Welcome to the forums!

You could probably do all of this with a 30A feed. 60A would certainly be enough. The real answer depends on the loads. What is the maximum rated capacity of the recessed lights, the fan, and the wall lights?

I'm thinking one 15A circuit for the mini-fridge, two 20A receptacle circuits and one more 15A circuit for the fan, the cans and the wall lights.

Wire size depends on circuit size, so let's nail that down first.
 
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Old 03-07-13, 02:46 PM
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Nashkat1,

The lights say 50w maximum bulb wattage, they are from Home Depot SKU 562883.

The fan I don't have yet but will be an outdoor fan similar to Home Depot SKU 168906 with 2 60w bulbs, 5 blades, 3 speed.

The fridge says 1.5 amps

Thanks!
 
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Old 03-07-13, 03:59 PM
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The branch circuit sizes I listed will all work. To get to the panel size add in the other loads, especially the rotisserie.

I wish we knew the fan motor load. I didn't find that when I searched for it. But it should be OK.

BTW, that's a really nice looking fan from the best company - or one of the two best, anyway - in the business, IMO.
 
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Old 03-07-13, 04:09 PM
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Thanks for your help, the rotisserie will just end up being plugged into the counter outlet. So with everything I have going on here what size wire should I run to feed the sub panel?
 
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Old 03-07-13, 04:33 PM
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Thanks for your help, the rotisserie will just end up being plugged into the counter outlet. So with everything I have going on here what size wire should I run to feed the sub panel?
I don't know yet. What is the total load you'll be feeding, including the rotisserie and anything - everything - else that will be plugged in to the countertop receptacles?
 
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Old 03-07-13, 04:43 PM
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Rotisserie say 15 watts, anything else that might be plugged into the outlets would be like a boombox type radio or a leafblower or blender.
 
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Old 03-07-13, 06:25 PM
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I am building a remada with a built in BBQ and need some info on the gauge of wire to use running a new sub panel in the island. I will be running conduit from the main panel about 150' to the sub panel location
I just helped my brother do one of these, finished it up about a year ago. We ran 3 - #8 THHN/THWN (Blk, Red & Wht) and 1 - #10 THHN/THWN (Grn) ground in 1" PVC Sch 40 conduit and fed it all from a 50 amp 2 pole breaker. Used a 16 space Homeline MLO panel as a subpanel with a 50 amp 2 pole backfed main breaker with main breaker retaining kit. 50 amps was overkill, but there is plenty of power for any future needs.
 

Last edited by ray2047; 03-08-13 at 09:13 AM. Reason: Remove comment I added.
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Old 03-08-13, 02:35 AM
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I like CasualJoe's setup. With two code issues. Sch 40 is great underground or in walls, but exposed it needs to be sch 80.

If the ramada is a seperate structure from the structure your service is on (ie not attached to the house), it needs a grounding electrode system. If there is a concrete foundation with more than 20 feet of rebar, you must run a wire from the rebar to the ground bar in the panel. Not the neutral bar, grounds and neutrals must stay isolated. Otherwise, two ground rods should do the trick.
 
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Old 03-08-13, 05:42 PM
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So for the grounding wire can I clamp it to rebar in a slab on grade and then pour the slab with the ground wire coming out underneath the side where my sub panel will be? This is in Arizona where it might be hard to drive a grounding rod 10' deep with all the rock.
 
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Old 03-08-13, 06:17 PM
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I like CasualJoe's setup. With two code issues. Sch 40 is great underground or in walls, but exposed it needs to be sch 80.

If the ramada is a seperate structure from the structure your service is on (ie not attached to the house), it needs a grounding electrode system. If there is a concrete foundation with more than 20 feet of rebar, you must run a wire from the rebar to the ground bar in the panel. Not the neutral bar, grounds and neutrals must stay isolated. Otherwise, two ground rods should do the trick.
In my example, I didn't elaborate with all the finite details on the grounding electrode system. It had a single 1/2" X 8' ground rod installed and the subpanel had a separate accessory ground bar, neutral bar was isolated. #6 bare solid ground wire beween ground bar and ground rod. The Sch 40 PVC conduit was only visible at one end (about 12"), but at that end it wasn't subject to damage.
 
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Old 03-08-13, 06:58 PM
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For a 150' run at 50A assuming 5% max voltage drop, you'd need a minimum of #6 conductors. If this was my project, I'd use the cheaper 2-2-2-4 USE cable buried 24'', and sleeved in sch. 80 PVC conduit where it exits the ground.
 
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Old 03-08-13, 07:33 PM
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CasualJoe, you rock.

JNNHI, exactly as you said in post 10. The #6 can come out the side or through the top of the slab. Just any place it might be exposed to physical damage it needs to be in pvc pipe. Securely fasten the wire to surfaces. Use a brass or copper clamp with CE (concrete encased) embossed on it.

If you weren't planning to use rebar, you can use #4 bare copper wire. Lay 20 feet of it so that at least 2 inches of concrete will cover it. Then continue the wire up to your ground bar.

Don't forget, cable, telephone, metal water pipes, metal gas pipes all need to be bonded to whichever system's wire, #6 or #4.
 
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Old 03-08-13, 10:00 PM
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So for the grounding wire can I clamp it to rebar in a slab on grade and then pour the slab with the ground wire coming out underneath the side where my sub panel will be?
Yes.

This is in Arizona where it might be hard to drive a grounding rod 10' deep with all the rock.
A ground rod, if you want to install one, does not have to be driven vertically.
 
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