100 amp to 200 amp service

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  #1  
Old 03-25-13, 09:01 PM
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100 amp to 200 amp service

Hi,

Name is Dominik and this will be my first post. This is a great forum and I've gotten some very good info from it before.
Sorry of this topic has been discussed before but I just need help with one thing.
I am located in Des Plaines IL 60016 and the village uses NFPA 70 electrical code.

I will this to keep this short. Purchasing a new home soon. It has a very old main load panel. Breakers I've never seen before From that main it had added 2 sub panels.
I want to get rid of this mess and install a 200 amp service. Meter is 100 amp on the outside. I am not sure if the city/Comed will allow me to do all the work but we will see.
I have never replaced a meter base/panel but I'm very skilled and conformable with electrical work.
Here's what I got for now:
200 amp meter base, single phase 3 wire.
Comed runs new(if needed) wires from pole to meter, this is overhead setup.
From meter to panel I run 3 aluminium 4/0 wires, two 120v and neutral.
I will do two 8' copper grounding rods. One #6 copper wire connecting two rods spaced 6' apart to meter base(aprox 20')
Here's what I dont know for sure. The #6 grounding wire gets connected to neutral in the meter base. Do I need anything from the meter base to the lod panel inside the house as far as grounding?
Like separate house panel grounding or something?

All house electrical is metal conduit and from what I understand that's what grounds everything all the way to the panel but then what?
Is the neutral inside the panel connected to the panel box for grounding?
Sorry of this is confusing, but good info would be greatly appreciated.
 
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  #2  
Old 03-25-13, 09:19 PM
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Welcome to the forums, Domimik.

Make the bond for your grounding electrode conductor in your new panel, not in the meter base. Add a bond to the cold water inlet to it (#4 copper).

I am not sure if the city/Comed will allow me to do all the work but we will see.
Doubtful. You may be able to get a permit to work from your side of the meter base inward. IOW, starting with your main distribution panel.
 
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Old 03-25-13, 09:20 PM
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Welcome to the forums.

The #6 grounding wire gets connected to neutral in the meter base.
No.
There are only three wires between the meter and the main panel....the two hot wires and the neutral.
In your main panel.....the neutral from your meter, the ground rods, water service ground, etc. will all connect to the neutral/ground bar(s). Your panel will have a bonding screw that goes thru the neutral bar into the panel box to bond the panel to ground.

You will need a permit for the job. Most power companies will disconnect power to the residence for a service replacement but will not reconnect without an ok from the electrical inspector. Here in NJ a homeowner could apply for a permit to do his own service. I'm not sure if that's still allowed. You would need to check that with your town/electrical inspector.

Are you planning on tackling this on your own or do you have a friend in the business that will be helping.
 
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Old 03-25-13, 10:27 PM
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Hi guys, thanks for replying.

To answer your question, most likely I will be doing this on my own..
I don't know any electricians.

I saw a couple videos on you tube of people connecting the ground wires to the meter base, is that something people don't do anymore?
If the ground wire goes to the panel thats in my basement, I would need to drill a
separate hole to the outside? I would think you cant use the same pipe that goes to the meter base.
I was looking at some main panels at HD, theres optional grounding bars available. If the ground wire gets connected to the neutral bar, whats the grounding bar for?

Grounding to water line. Does it have to get connected where my main supply comes in or anywhere in the house to cold line?

Thanks for your help guys, much appriciated!
 
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Old 03-25-13, 11:24 PM
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I've seen ground wiring attached externally to the meter pan but the power company doesn't allow a ground wire thru the meter pan.

You can run the ground wire in the same hole as the service conduit.

Optional grounding bars are available in case you would want to use that as a sub-panel. If that were a sub panel you would need a ground bar and a neutral bar.

The cold water attaches to the water main on the city side of the water meter.
 
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Old 03-26-13, 05:55 AM
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I had a service upgrade done about 6 years ago. This may be a local requirement in my area because I never see it mentioned in these forums but part of the grounding requirements was a jumper around the water meter and from the infeed and outfeed of the hot water heater.
 
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Old 03-26-13, 09:57 AM
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It's a national code and we do mention it when the job comes closer to fruition and the work is performed by the homeowner instead of an electrician.
 
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Old 03-26-13, 03:44 PM
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Thanks for the info guys.

So as far as grounding for 200 amp service:
2 x 8' ground rods on the outside(6' or more apart) connected by #6? copper wire running to main panel inside the house.
#4 copper wire from main water line (before or after water meter?) back to main panel.
All grounding wires connect to the neutral bar.

Anything else that needs to be connected to the ground wire from the water line? Like the mentioned water heater? Furnace?
My water line/meter is on the other side of the house where my panel is so I can connect almost anything on its way to the panel.
 
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Old 03-26-13, 05:13 PM
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2 x 8' ground rods on the outside(6' or more apart) connected by #6? copper wire running to main panel inside the house.
It would be wise to check with the local AHJ and/or the power company on where to land the ground wire from the rods. Many power companies, including the Ameren Illinois companies (CILCO, CIPS, IP), require the ground wire from the rods to connect to the neutral at the ground tab inside the meter socket.

#4 copper wire from main water line (before or after water meter?) back to main panel.
It can be either #4 copper or #2 aluminum. If you have a water meter and/or a pressure reducing valve in the basement, the ground wire must be continuous length and jumper around the meter or PRV by installaing a water pipe ground clamp on both sides; customer side and city side.
 
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Old 03-26-13, 06:27 PM
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Anything else that needs to be connected to the ground wire from the water line? Like the mentioned water heater? Furnace?
If you have a threaded steel gas pipe coming in, I would bond to that too.
 
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Old 03-26-13, 06:34 PM
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Here in NJ we have two primary power companies. One does not allow the ground to pass thru the CT cabinet or meter.

Like Joe said.....check first.

I left you a link to the Ameren Illinois service construction pages for some reading info. In their section 500 they show running the ground into the meter pan and then isolating the ground and neutral bars in the panel. I've never done that on any home service.
ADC_ILConstServRESpage
 
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Old 03-27-13, 06:00 PM
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they show running the ground into the meter pan and then isolating the ground and neutral bars in the panel. I've never done that on any home service.
Are you sure? What page were you looking at?
 
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Old 03-27-13, 06:14 PM
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Take a look at this:
https://www.comed.com/Documents/cust...7_InOrder1.pdf

Comeds guide for service replacement/upgrade.
Looks like they want the grounding rods to be connected to the meter base and water ground (before and after the water meter) to be connected to the panel neutral bar.
I was looking at this guide and looks like the existing overhead setup will be fine besides the wires which I would change anyways.
2x 4/0 wires for 120v and 2/0 for neutral is good?
 
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Old 03-27-13, 06:24 PM
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Joe....No I am not sure. I just went back to find it. I was reading in the electric service manual in the 500 section. I may have been looking at the over 480v section.
 
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Old 03-27-13, 06:44 PM
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I may have been looking at the over 480v section.
Take another look. Page numbers are on lower right side of each page. If you were looking at 500-5, you were looking at 480 volt cold sequence metering (1-phase and 3-phase). In cold sequence metering, there is a main circuit breaker ahead of the meter and that, along with in the meter enclosure, is where the neutral is grounded. That makes the main panel a subpanel with neutral isolated from ground. Also, look at notes 7, 8 and 9 on pages 500-2 and 500-3.
 
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Old 03-27-13, 09:29 PM
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Take a look at this:
https://www.comed.com/Documents/cust...7_InOrder1.pdf

Comeds guide for service replacement/upgrade.
Looks like they want the grounding rods to be connected to the meter base and water ground (before and after the water meter) to be connected to the panel neutral bar.
From the pdf you linked to, page 49:
The proper installation of a grounding system when
utilizing a ground electrode (ground rod) is as follows:

The ground wire will originate from the grounding screw
located in the cabinet of the first disconnect or fuse.
 
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