electric motor smoked

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  #1  
Old 04-14-13, 07:00 AM
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electric motor smoked

I'm looking at buying a brand new (but defective) motor that goes on a well pump. It was tested for about 10 seconds (they say) on 120V, and reported that the wired smoked (I assume it ran, but smoked the wires... possibly the winding?). They freely admit this is the condition of the motor and that it's just being sold for parts.

In reading the instructions that are online regarding this motor, it says the motor comes wired for 240V but contains instructions on how to rewire it for 120V.

I guess I am thinking that some moron didn't know that and tried to run it on 120 without connecting it properly. Does this sound reasonable? And if so, do you think they actually did any irreversible damage to the motor?

I actually only want it for the pump body, not the motor, but if the motor is still good then there's no reason to disassemble it and put my existing old motor on it.
 
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Old 04-14-13, 07:18 AM
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If the motor has a thermal overload it probably poped before any real damage was done but the only way to be reasonably sure is to Megger it out and if okay run on the correct voltage while monitoring the amps. If no Megger or Amprobe just run and see how warm it gets.
 
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Old 04-14-13, 09:52 AM
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If the motor was actually fed 240 while wired 120, catastrophic damage would have occurred, irregardless of it having any kind of thermal protection. Even though the mechanisms are embedded in the windings, they are not able to trip quickly enough, in such situations. The "success rate" of thermal overload devices decreases as the supply voltage is increased beyond the rated voltage. 150% rated voltage is pushing it... 200%, forget it.

Since "they" were able to run the motor for as long as 10 seconds and could get it to smoke, I would say the the thermal overload may have been welded closed, IF it has one.

Once a motor smokes, it is "over the hill" and cannot be trusted.
 
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Old 04-14-13, 10:06 AM
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Nick, but his was run on 120 volts and possibly wired for 240. Introducing the neutral instead of another hot wire may have just overloaded the motor, not sure. Only way to test it is with a megger or run it on line voltage.
 
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Old 04-14-13, 10:10 AM
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I'm just curious....why would you consider buying this motor ?

Even if the motor checks out fine....... it's original condition has been compromised. Why risk it.
 
  #6  
Old 04-14-13, 10:24 AM
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Originally Posted by PJmax
I'm just curious....why would you consider buying this motor?
Please read... more carefully.

Originally Posted by XSleeper
I actually only want it for the pump body, not the motor, but if the motor is still good then there's no reason to disassemble it and put my existing old motor on it.

Originally Posted by chandler
Nick, but his was run on 120 volts and possibly wired for 240. Introducing the neutral instead of another hot wire may have just overloaded the motor, not sure.
I was assuming the OP meant to say 240, rather than 120. Feeding a motor 120 while it is connected 240 generally won't do anything, however, we don't know exactly what type of motor it is, how it is wound, or how the connections are changed.
 
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Old 04-14-13, 11:08 AM
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I think Brant is looking for a "deal" with a bonus. Pump is probably OK, motor is "iffy" and a bonus if it works.
 
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Old 04-14-13, 03:36 PM
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Yes, like I said, I want the pump body, which is cast iron, and contains the impeller. The one in my garden has leaked for quite some time and its time to finally replace it. Rather than popping for an entirely new unit I have located a used one with a motor that's got the problems mentioned above.

I can put the new pump body on my existing motor, which works fine. But to do that i have to disassemble everything, and put the old motor on the new impeller and that half of the pump body, then reassemble.

So yes, you are right Larry, it would be a bonus if the motor would work.

I stated it as I meant. The motor comes factory wired for 240V. The seller clearly states that they hooked it up to 120V and tested it. (I am assuming they either didn't read the manual or are just dumb). So I'm asking for your opinion on whether you think that would do permanent harm to the motor, or if following the manual's directions to wire it for 120V might be all that is needed- provided they didn't completely smoke it. I guess there is no way to know without performing the tests, but I thought someone would have run into this before.

Here's a link to a .pdf of the motor and pump in question.

I live about a block away from an old timer's electric motor shop (where they actually still fix things rather than junk them) so maybe I will just order it and take it to him for testing when it arrives and see what he thinks. Maybe he can check out the things Ray mentioned.

thanks guys
 
  #9  
Old 04-14-13, 04:47 PM
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I live about a block away from an old timer's electric motor shop (where they actually still fix things rather than junk them) so maybe I will just order it and take it to him for testing when it arrives and see what he thinks. Maybe he can check out the things Ray mentioned.
Sounds like a plan, Brant.
 
  #10  
Old 04-14-13, 05:15 PM
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So, it has a selector switch rather than "interactive wiring"...

Originally Posted by XSleeper
(I am assuming they either didn't read the manual or are just dumb). So I'm asking for your opinion on whether you think that would do permanent harm to the motor, or if following the manual's directions to wire it for 120V might be all that is needed
The manual is a bit mysterious, as it refers to "wiring", when the only wiring to be done is to connect to L1, L2, and ground.

"Terminal board" sounds like electronics to me, and maybe that's what got smoked/is smoking somehow? (Call me paranoid, but it seems there's nothing these days that doesn't have a circuit board shoved up in it)

The manual is no good to me, being so un-technical, so all I'm going to guess is the above situation, or the motor was simply defective to begin with. I think it's funny how the manual even has "Defective motor" as a troubleshooting solution. Most of the time, it's "If a solution to the problem cannot be found, then (etc.)"
 
  #11  
Old 04-14-13, 05:48 PM
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Well I took apart the old one. Had a little trouble getting the impeller and shaft seal assembly off, but I finally got it. Youtube is freaking awesome. LOL

I ordered the new pump with the questionable motor. No matter how the motor turns out, I guess I'll be able to put my old motor on the new body, barring some surprise like they changed the shaft size or something.

Thanks for all the suggestions!
 
  #12  
Old 04-14-13, 06:02 PM
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The manual is a bit mysterious, as it refers to "wiring", when the only wiring to be done is to connect to L1, L2, and ground.
Yes, those are the only connections to be made. But they're referring to the chart with the conductor sizes and overcurrent protection listed, at the top of page 4. I like that they built oversizing the conductors to correct for voltage drop with increased distance into that chart. Can't remember when I've seen a company do that before.

Which model are you getting, BTW?
 
  #13  
Old 04-14-13, 06:13 PM
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Originally Posted by XSleeper
I guess I'll be able to put my old motor on the new body, barring some surprise like they changed the shaft size or something.
Now that you mention it....

Well, you can buy adapting sleeve kits for such situations.
 
  #14  
Old 04-14-13, 07:03 PM
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The model I have is a Water Ace R7L, but it's an exact match to the Wayne WLS150, which is what I ordered.

Best price for a new one is on Home Depot's website. I was pretty fortunate to find one online that I could use just for parts.
 
  #15  
Old 04-14-13, 07:32 PM
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OK, you have the 1-1/2 HP model.

Looking at that wiring chart again, I DON'T like that they list 115 and 230 for the voltage requirements, and that they say "Dual Element Fuse 250V" at the top of the overcurrent protection column. That column actually contains both the 120V hot-to-neutral values and the 240V single-phase 2-pole, or 2-leg, values. And 230V in one column v. 250 in another? But the topper is the "Dual Element Fuse." Yeah, right. Maybe for a fused disconnect out by the wellhead? I'd still buy a breaker for that.

I guess the one thing I actually like is the careful listing of the different wire sizes.
 
  #16  
Old 04-18-13, 09:09 PM
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Here it is!

The end of the motor was a little beat up, like someone had it in the back of his truck and slammed on the brakes. It didn't spin perfectly smoothly, but after taking it apart, and doing a little repair I think I got it to spin freely again.

I still need to put a cord on it and give it a good test, not just a 1 second run... so I'll let you know how it turns out.

Coldest April here ever, which is really a contrast from last year, which was the WARMEST April ever. Very wet, so I won't be hooking the pump up anytime soon.

Going to rig up a recirculation valve on it, to limit the amount of water and pressure it puts out. That should be an improvement right there.
 
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Old 04-18-13, 09:22 PM
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You may have swiped yourself a bonus!

Yeah, we've been watching what the weather's been doing out your way. Plenty of water for now, it sounds like.
 
  #18  
Old 07-16-13, 08:04 PM
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Well, here is the update to my pump situation. We have had good rains here up until about 3 weeks ago, but now it is getting pretty dry. So I got the pump hooked up, put a plug on it and plugged it in. Seemed to run just fine. It pumped water for maybe a week, then I started having trouble. I think it must be a weak start capacitor (161-193 MFD) because it just wants to hum now, and if I let it, it will trip the breaker. It was also kind of oily underneath the housing where the capacitor sits. There's a tiny hole in the plastic around the connectors, and from what I can find, that's usually a good indication it's toast. I don't think the black case of the motor does it any favors sitting out in the heat like it is.


Sound like a reasonable guess? The new one is on the way, hopefully it will be here before the garden dries up and blows away.
 
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Old 07-16-13, 08:37 PM
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That's as good a guess as any. How is the new one different?
 
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Old 07-17-13, 04:28 AM
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Same spec's, different brand.
 
  #21  
Old 07-17-13, 05:37 AM
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Originally Posted by XSleeper

I don't think the black case of the motor does it any favors sitting out in the heat like it is.
The white rectangular plastic pail that pool chlorine comes in can be recycled into a sunshade.

I've used one made from the small side of a pail



also could go with an inverted "V" or a three-sided setup.
 

Last edited by Hal_S; 07-17-13 at 06:20 AM.
  #22  
Old 07-22-13, 07:01 PM
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WooHoo! Put the new start capacitor on and it runs like a charm.
 
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Old 07-22-13, 08:53 PM
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Yay! And thanks for the update...
 
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