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Running external subpanel in yard to supply hot tub, pool light,and 20 amp

Running external subpanel in yard to supply hot tub, pool light,and 20 amp

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  #1  
Old 04-29-13, 09:36 PM
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Running external subpanel in yard to supply hot tub, pool light,and 20 amp

Making some good progress in my yard. Last order of business is to install run to supply an exterior subpanel to power a hot tub, the pool light, and a couple 20 amp 120 circuits for lighting/ceiling fans, small lcd tv, and some 120 outlets on outdoor kitchen counter. So that said, I'm 130' from the main house panel and have already run 1.5" pvc conduit 18+" under ground and now just need to purchase the wire. I'm thinking I'll need to go #4's for power and not sure on neutral and ground size so I'm looking for help there.

demand wise...

the spa calls for max load 40 amp with 50amp breaker. The other stuff I could imagine needing more than another 40 amps if I had tons of stuff running at once which likely will never happen. So figuring 80 amp breaker @ main panel. At subpanel, I'll have 50 amp gfci breaker for Hot tub supply and will run 2 20 amps to outdoor kitchen to gfci plugs etc.. The pool light.. I have no idea there yet on how to wire that safely/correctly and could use some help.

So questions are as follows:

- Any areas of concern with the plan above?
- Do I need to run grounding rods for this free standing exterior panel? If so, how far from panel and apart etc..?
- How should I wire the pool light into the sub panel correctly?
- What size neutral and ground is appropriate here?
- Any chance I could run coax in the same conduit to bring cable TV to outdoor kitchen?

Thanks for the help as always. You guys set me straight and I'm very appreciative. Attached are a couple pics.. one of my rough outline plan and the other of the hot tub power demand sitcker.

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  #2  
Old 04-30-13, 05:20 PM
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Not much of a concern. If you're going 80 amps at 130 feet, I'd go 2 or 1 awg aluminum conductors rated 75 or 90 degrees celcius. Your two hots need to be 2 or 1 AWG, your neutral needs to be 2 or 1 AWG, and your ground needs to be #8 copper or #6 aluminum. If they have a deal on four-conductor 1 or 2AWG cable, just oversize the ground if it's cheaper. You need to drive one 8ft grounding rod with #6 Copper on it, I believe. Correct me if I'm wrong. I would run the pool wire into the light niche, then up as far as it will go into a junction box on metal conduit supported by a 2x4 spiked into the ground. Then run 14-2 romex into the lighting J-box and splice the SO from the lamp to the romex. I would put the romex on a GFCI breaker, IMHO. I wouldn't run coax in the same conduit. My recommendation would be to run 150 foot of RG-11 cable to compensate for signal loss. The conduit for the RG-11 would most likely be 1/2" or 1". Run it 12 inches above the feeder conduit. or 12 inches beside the feeder conduit. I would also put a 5-1002Mhz distrib amplifier at the beginning of the RG-11 run. After the RG-11 run, I'd use an F - to - F connector and run RG-6, 'cause it's easier to work with.
 
  #3  
Old 04-30-13, 06:04 PM
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Then run 14-2 romex into the lighting J-box and splice the SO from the lamp to the romex. I would put the romex on a GFCI breaker
Today's romex is technically called type NM B cable and is not allowed to be used outside or in underground conduit. It is only to be used in dry areas such as inside your home. You could use Type UF cable if you wish, but not romex.
 
  #4  
Old 04-30-13, 09:41 PM
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thanks for the replies guys. I opted to just run a second conduit for the coax. It's a bit big @ 1.25" but I had it laying around and who knows, maybe I'll need the space for something else down the road.

I'm planning to use copper instead of aluminum so I'll have to pull out the calc to identify sizes needed based on the amperage and run length. I think it will be 2 #4's and prob 2 #6 (one for neutral and one for ground).

thanks so much for the recommends on the coax.. that's completely foreign space for me.

thanks!
Ken
 
  #5  
Old 04-30-13, 10:03 PM
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Using copper as feeders..... # 8 is fine for ground.
 
  #6  
Old 05-01-13, 12:09 AM
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Do not downsize the neutral conductor unless a significant portion of the load is 240 volts only.
 
  #7  
Old 05-01-13, 11:10 AM
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Okay on the neutral.

Question, is one grounding rod enough or do I need 2?
 
  #8  
Old 05-01-13, 01:04 PM
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the spa calls for max load 40 amp with 50amp breaker. The other stuff I could imagine needing more than another 40 amps if I had tons of stuff running at once which likely will never happen. So figuring 80 amp breaker @ main panel. At subpanel, I'll have 50 amp gfci breaker for Hot tub supply and will run 2 20 amps to outdoor kitchen to gfci plugs etc..
Starting with a 240V feed, individual #3 AWG copper conductors in conduit will supply 80 amps of load with a voltage drop of less than 3%. #4 AWG conductors will supply up to 70 amps with less than a 3% drop.

Do not downsize the neutral conductor unless a significant portion of the load is 240 volts only.
Is the spa only 240 volts?
 
  #9  
Old 05-01-13, 02:24 PM
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Yes, the spa is the only 240 connect I'll have. The rest will be 120 load.
 
  #10  
Old 05-01-13, 04:36 PM
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the spa is the only 240 connect I'll have.
I understand. And it will likely be more than half the total load. But my question is, "Is the spa only 240 volts or does it take a 120/240V service?" I regret not being clearer about that earlier.
 
  #11  
Old 05-01-13, 08:05 PM
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Oh sorry I misunderstood. It's strictly 240.
 
  #12  
Old 05-01-13, 08:09 PM
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Also for reference, I've opted to bring in the panel a bit closer and am now 110' instead of 130'.

Thanks,
Ken
 
  #13  
Old 05-01-13, 08:22 PM
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I've opted to bring in the panel a bit closer and am now 110' instead of 130'.
Interestingly, that didn't change the result. It's still 70 amps or less, total load, to keep the voltage drop below 3% with #4 AWG copper conductors. 71 amps and up requires #3.

Without credit for more than half of the total being 240 only. But that would only affect the size of the neutral.
 
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