Go Back  DoItYourself.com Community Forums > Electrical, AC & DC. Electronic Equipment and Computers > Electrical - AC & DC
Reload this Page >

upgrading panel in basement to second floor unit - wire layout plan

upgrading panel in basement to second floor unit - wire layout plan

Reply

  #1  
Old 04-30-13, 04:06 PM
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Apr 2013
Location: USA
Posts: 4
upgrading panel in basement to second floor unit - wire layout plan

I want to upgrade the panel from 60A to 200A for the second floor apartment. The panel is in the basement. I was planning to replace the panel after utility company disconnects power at the pole. I wad going to the use PVC conduit from the panel along ceiling in basement then up towards the second floor in a cavity space between wall and chimney. Then continue up to attic crawl space to run wire to ceiling lights and down into wall for outlets, etc. Does this sound legitimate? Also, does each separate wire from a breaker on the panel have to be in its own conduit or can several wires be fed through? Do I even need to run conduit tubing to be within code or as long as the wires are secure is that sufficient? Appreciate any help with the layout design. Thank you!
 
Sponsored Links
  #2  
Old 04-30-13, 04:25 PM
chandler's Avatar
Banned. Rule And/Or Policy Violation
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: USA
Posts: 39,968
Welcome to the forums! You should check your local code authority before beginning this adventure. Quite possibly you will find they will not approve such a move so distant from the meter without an external disconnect coupled with the meter base. From the questions you are asking, I gather you have limited electrical experience, and should enlist the assistance of a licensed electrician to at least oversee the move and subsequent wiring of the remainder of the house.
 
  #3  
Old 04-30-13, 05:31 PM
Nashkat1's Avatar
Member
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: USA
Posts: 8,470
The new panel is going to be where the existing one is, right? In the basement? If so, then taking the sircuits up through the chimney chase may be fine. It depends on the conditions in the chase.

I want to upgrade the panel from 60A to 200A for the second floor apartment.
Why so large? A 200A service is usually only needed for a single-family dwelling with some heavy electrical loads, like central air. 100A is more than enough for most apartments.

I wad going to the use PVC conduit from the panel along ceiling in basement then up towards the second floor in a cavity space between wall and chimney.
How is the chimney made? How large is the space you'll have to run the conduit in, and how close to the chimney will it be? What does the chimney vent?

does each separate wire from a breaker on the panel have to be in its own conduit or can several wires be fed through? Do I even need to run conduit tubing to be within code or as long as the wires are secure is that sufficient?
Are you asking about wires or cables? A wire is a single conductor, and sets of wire are installed in conduit. A cable is a set of wires in a common sheath or jacket. Cables should not be in conduit unless a sleeve is needed to protect them from physical damage.
 
  #4  
Old 04-30-13, 06:13 PM
CasualJoe's Avatar
Member
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: USA
Posts: 9,221
How is the chimney made? How large is the space you'll have to run the conduit in, and how close to the chimney will it be? What does the chimney vent?
Nash, I assume you are asking if this is a masonry chimney or a pre-fab metal chimney. Some pre-fab metal chimneys actually get pretty warm when venting fireplaces and/or stoves and must have a specific clearance from combustible materials.
 
  #5  
Old 04-30-13, 06:18 PM
CasualJoe's Avatar
Member
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: USA
Posts: 9,221
I want to upgrade the panel from 60A to 200A for the second floor apartment. The panel is in the basement. I was planning to replace the panel after utility company disconnects power at the pole.
You have a much bigger job than just upgrading the panel. You'll need to upgrade the meter socket, mast and all service entrance wiring as well as take out the appropriate permit and have it all inspected. That is, if your AHJ will allow a homeowner to do this type of work. That's quite an undertaking for an inexperienced novice.
 
  #6  
Old 04-30-13, 06:20 PM
pcboss's Avatar
Forum Topic Moderator
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: Maryland
Posts: 14,365
Like Nash I see little reason for that large of a service for an apartment. Did you do a load calculation?
 
  #7  
Old 04-30-13, 06:43 PM
chandler's Avatar
Banned. Rule And/Or Policy Violation
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: USA
Posts: 39,968
I misunderstood. It sounded as if he was going to run conduit to the second floor and reinstall the panel up there. Good catch, guys.
 
  #8  
Old 04-30-13, 07:25 PM
Nashkat1's Avatar
Member
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: USA
Posts: 8,470
I assume you are asking if this is a masonry chimney or a pre-fab metal chimney. Some pre-fab metal chimneys actually get pretty warm when venting fireplaces and/or stoves and must have a specific clearance from combustible materials.
Yep, all of that. That's why I asked about the clearance and the appliance(s) vented through it, as well as its construction.
 
  #9  
Old 05-01-13, 05:01 AM
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Apr 2013
Location: USA
Posts: 4
Thanks Nash and CasualJoe,! The chimney is made of cinder blocks. There is about a foot of space around it and it services the water heaters.
 
  #10  
Old 05-01-13, 05:10 AM
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Apr 2013
Location: USA
Posts: 4
Thank you for the post! I did do a load calculation but I did do it at 100% load which came to about 160 Amps. I rounded it up. Seems I may need to rethink that. The apartment will have central air, electric baseboard heating, electric range, hood, dishwasher, disposal, washing machine and dryer.
 
  #11  
Old 05-01-13, 07:51 AM
ray2047's Avatar
Group Moderator
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: USA
Posts: 32,678
Geeze no gas where you are? A lot of that could be done more cheaply with gas in most areas, especially heating.
 
  #12  
Old 05-01-13, 08:05 AM
Nashkat1's Avatar
Member
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: USA
Posts: 8,470
I did do a load calculation but I did do it at 100% load which came to about 160 Amps. I rounded it up.
I don't know what you used for that, but here is a tool that has worked well for some of us: Residential Load Calculations -- Mike Holt Enterprises.

As Ray pointed out, many of the loads you've listed could be done more cheaply with gas in most areas. Not just heating, but cooking, water heating and clothes drying. It would appear, if the water heaters require vents, that you have gas available.
 
Reply

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Thread Tools
Search this Thread
Display Modes
'