Wiring Garbage Disposal and Dish Washer

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  #1  
Old 05-25-13, 06:54 PM
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Wiring Garbage Disposal and Dish Washer

I need assistance wiring garbage disposal using a switch.
Current Wiring:
Switch:
The black wire from the circuit is pigtail to the top brass screw of the switch.
The white wire from the circuit is attached to a pigtail that goes on thru the circuit and also down to the disposal.
The black wire comes up from the disposal that is attached to the bottom brass screw.
Receptacle:
Only two wires go into receptacle from disposal/dishwasher: The white wire goes to the lower silver screw and the black wire is attached to the lower brass screw.
***The brass tab has been broken between two receptacles.
Issue: Lower receptacle remains "hot" for dishwasher that is OK, but the "top" receptacle for disposal is totally dead.
Previous Wiring:
The brass tab was not removed and dishwasher worked fine and disposal worked using a switch without any problem.
Trouble Shooting steps so far:
1) The switch was removed and installed on a single pole switch somewhere else in the house and worked fine.
2) Installed a new receptacle without breaking a brass tab both the receptacles stayed "hot".
3) Installed a new receptacle with breaking a brass tab the dishwasher is working fine but disposal is not working.
Please help me to identify and rectify the situation so that disposal works using a switch as it used to work previously.
 
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  #2  
Old 05-25-13, 07:36 PM
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I have moved your post to the Electrical forum since it is primarily an electrical problem

I am having a bit of trouble understanding your post. At the switch do you have cables or conduit. If cables how many? Do you know which cable is hot? You can not use a non contact tester to determine that. You must use a multimeter or test light or solenoid tester.

Normally if you have power coming in at the switch you would have a 3-conductor cable to the receptacle. By common convention the black of the 3-conductor carries unswitched hot and red switched hot. Instead of a three conductor cable it sounds like they used two 2 conductor cables. With the power in cable that would make three 2-conductor cables. If that is the case the black for the dishwasher and power in black would be pigtailed to one side of the switch and the GD black would go to the other side of the switch. And, yes the tab on the receptacle would be broken. It sounds like you have confused the blacks and connected them wrong.
 
  #3  
Old 05-26-13, 02:59 PM
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Hi, Back again. Answering your questions, it's cable. Two cables plus ground come from service. White is pigtailed & goes up further through the house. Black is pigtailed & is attached to upper brass post & goes up further through house. Two wires come up from the dishwasher & disposal. White is pigtailed goes up through house. Black is attached to lower post.
RE the receptacle the lower socket was hot, the upper was dead.
I switched the black wires and now both sockets are dead.
I switched them back and both are still dead.
Previously this system had worked without the little brass tab on the receptacle being broken. How could it work in the first place?
The connections at the light switch look sound.
What could I being doing wrong?
 
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Old 05-26-13, 04:49 PM
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Two cables plus ground come from service.
And go where? To the switch box or the receptacle box? Please for now just tell us the number of cables at each box. Unless this is on two breakers only ONE cable comes from the service panel.

I switched the black wires and now both sockets are dead.
I switched them back and both are still dead.
Random switching isn't the answer. The answer will best come fro determining which cable is hot using a multimeter and whether it is in the switch bx or the receptacle box.

To summarize:
  • Number of cables in the switch box?
  • Number of cables in the receptacle box?
  • Is the hot cable in the switch box or the receptacle box.
  • Is this on one breaker or two breakers?
 
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Old 05-27-13, 07:05 AM
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Two cables plus ground come from service. White is pigtailed & goes up further through the house. Black is pigtailed & is attached to upper brass post & goes up further through house. The switch is hot.
 
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Old 05-27-13, 07:26 AM
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Two cables plus ground come from service.
If both dishwasher and garbage disposal are on the same single pole breaker you will not have two cables from the servic. Do you mean one cable with two wires? Assuming you really mean a single cable with two wires how did you determine the cable was hot?

The switch is hot.
Switches are not hot. Wires are hot.

What you are writing does not make sense. Assuming you are correct about power coming in at the switch if there is only a single 2-conductor cable going to the receptacle then half of the receptacle can't be switched and the other half hot. Can you post pictures of the wiring at the switch and receptacle? http://www.doityourself.com/forum/li...-pictures.html

Terminology: Cable is two or more wires in a metallic or nonmetallic sheath. Wire is a single conductor. A 2-conductor cable has a black wire, white wire, and sometimes a bare wire. A 3-conductor cable has a black wire, red wire, white wire, and sometimes a bare wire.
 
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Old 05-27-13, 07:32 AM
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The circuits for these appliances should not be also powering other parts of the house.
 
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Old 05-27-13, 10:06 AM
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I have a two conductor cable only the black wire is attached to the switch. The white wire is connected to other white wires and goes up. Two wires come up from DW/disposal. Black is connected to lower post. White is wire-nutted and goes up through the house.
Currently at the receptacle I have the white wire at the upper silver post and the black wire at the brass lower post. The lower plug is live. The upper is not and does not work by the switch. The brass tab on the receptacle is broken.
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  #9  
Old 05-27-13, 10:27 AM
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If picture #1 is the only receptacle under the counter it can not be half switched. There are not enough wires.

So you also have a receptacle at the switch above the counter. See why pictures are good!

Bottom line you do not have enough wires to do what you want based on the picture below the counter. Are there any other cables. Can you give us a picture showing the whole sink cabinet. I suspect there is a separate cable from the countertop receptacle to the dishwasher. If that is the case then it doesn't matter that both sides of the receptacle under the counter ares witched. (You could even use a simplex receptacle.)
 
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Old 05-27-13, 01:02 PM
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Hello, thank you for all your help. I have found yet another outlet under the sink that is run off the wall switch. I believe my GD issues all over. However, I'm 99.9 percent certain that my dishwasher & GD were originally plugged into the same receptacle. By the wiring I have described & shown you I don't understand how that would have worked in the first place, yet alone how to fix it. It's not the first time I have found something funky about this house. Thank you for all your help.
 
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Old 05-27-13, 05:37 PM
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I'm 99.9 percent certain that my dishwasher & GD were originally plugged into the same receptacle. By the wiring I have described & shown you I don't understand how that would have worked in the first place,
They weren't plugged into the same receptacle unless there was a piggy-back, or pass-through. plug inserted first.

I think what you're trying to say is that they were each plugged into one of the two receptacles in a duplex receptacle. They could be again. All that's required is for there to be two separate feeds for the two receptacles, and the tab on the hot side of the duplex receptacle has to be removed. One of the two receptacles could be wired to be always hot, for the dishwasher ans the could be switch controlled for the GD.

That's what Ray meant when he referred to a "half-switched" receptacle. You may have some of those in other rooms.
 
  #12  
Old 05-27-13, 07:05 PM
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As Nash wrote:
All that's required is for there to be two separate feeds for the two receptacles,
But your picture only shows one feed. To avoid future confusion I suggest installing a simplex receptacle in the switched feed box.

 
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